Living the Stories

What do William Webb, Jordan Freeman, and James H. Williams have in common? They were all black men who lived in Connecticut before the 1900’s, and they’ve all been portrayed as living history figures by Kevin Johnson an employee of the Connecticut State Library’s History and Genealogy department. This month Ashley, Kym, and Matt are joined by Kevin to learn about his research and the creative process that went into brining to life three men from CT’s history. Kevin’s passion for history and education is almost unprecedented, and his enthusiasm is infectious, and we mention Denzel Washington!

Can’t get enough of Kevin! Listen to his episode on the Grating the Nutmeg Podcast!

What we’re reading:

The Leaving Room by Amber McBride

Zoey and Sasafrass: Dragons and Marshmallows by Asia Citro

The End of Drum-Time by Hanna Pylväinen

Colores Patriots of the American Revolution by William C Nell

Resource we mentioned:

Kevin Johnson's performance schedule

The Connecticut State Library

History & Genealogy: The Nutmeg Navigator Blog

The Voice of Black America by Philip S. Foner

Black Soldiers of the Revolutionary War

Credit:

“Wholesome”

Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/be/3.0/

The Connecticut State Library. Preserving the Past to Inform the Future!

Transcript

Kym Powe (00:07)
Welcome to Under the Charter Oak, a podcast of the Connecticut State Library where we preserve the past to inform the future. My name is Kym Powe I am the Children and Young Adult Consultant.

Ashley Sklar (00:19)
I'm Ashley Sklar, I'm the Adult Services and Community Engagement Consultant.

Matt Geeza (00:23)
And I'm Matt Geeza the Director of the Connecticut Library for Accessible Books and the Middletown Library Service Center.

Kym Powe (00:29)
and we are beyond thrilled today to introduce a colleague of ours who works at the State Library building up in Hartford. Kevin, introduce yourself.

Kevin Johnson (00:38)
Hi, Kevin Johnson, Library Technician, Historical Presenter, Researcher for the Connecticut State Library History and Genealogy Unit.

Ashley Sklar (00:46)
I think he wins for longest title guys. We’re always complain about how long ours are, but I think you've got us beat.

Kym Powe (00:50)
That might be the longest one so far.

We're slacking.

But so Kevin, the way that we tend to start off our podcast is talking about what we're reading. So I am, so I intended to read it, start reading it at silent book club on Sunday, but it snowed so I still think it counts. So, I'm currently reading The Leaving Room by Amber McBride. It’s a book in verse and I love a book in verse about, these.

This person who's known as a keeper, and they stay in this room, and it's a room where young people go after they die before transitioning to the afterlife. So it's sort of a space to nurture them and calm them down and help them accept, right, like that their time has come and gone and they are moving on to the afterworld. So it's kind of like a pit stop. 

And this keeper is sort of this like amorphous like being like there's no mirrors, like, you know, they don't know anything, but they've always been alone. They've always been the keeper in this room. And potentially there are other rooms with other keepers, but there can only be one keeper per room. 

And one day they meet another keeper. So it's really great. I'm really excited to read it. And the book is actually based off of a near death experience that Amber McBride's father had. So there's like actually a lot that sort of goes into the story. And so I'm really excited to start it more than like the nine pages that I'm at and finish reading it.

Matt Geeza (02:22)
How about you, Ashley?

Ashley Sklar (02:23)
Okay, my turn. So I am still reading personally that 800 page book I mentioned a few episodes ago. Yep. Still reading. I'm slow. So instead I'm going to talk about another book that my six year old is reading to me and which is the best. She - it's funny. So this is a series it's Zoe and Sassafras. I'm sure it will sound familiar to many a parent or not parents. We - she actually has this on. We have a Yoto which is like a little audiobook player for kids. 

And so she has the full series that she's listened to for a couple years now. But I recently checked it out from our Middletown Library Service Center and brought home the first book, which is called Dragons and Marshmallows. And sure enough, she opened it right up and she's been reading to me a bit, but there's definitely a lot more words on these pages than there are in the books that she had been reading. But she just started with chapter one and read right through it. So we are on chapter four, I think, at this point. But it is pretty amazing.
These are elementary fiction. The author, Asia Citro is a former science teacher, so there's a lot of science in there, there's a lot of magical creatures who need help, so there's like some caretaking, there's her sidekick, Sassafras, which is her cat. It's a really cool sort of adventure, sciency, yeah, magical realism kind of thing, so it's fun.

Kym Powe (03:40)
I think I put that on the 2025 suggested summer reading list. My best friend's brilliant.

Ashley Sklar (03:45)
Yeah, they're joyous.

She gets books from a really, really fantastic librarian. 

Kym Powe (03:56)
My gosh.

Matt Geeza (03:56)
Kevin, how about you?

Kevin Johnson (03:58)
Reading right now, a number of different books. One that sticks out in my mind is the Battle of Groton Heights, talking about the Jordan Freeman Revolutionary War story was a group of pamphlets that we have at the State Library of all of the annual events happening about the Battle of Fort Griswold. And the State Library consolidated those into a group of pamphlets that shares the Bicentennials, the building of the monument. So just going through that and giving all of the accounts of what happened during the battle. And so it just gives me good nuggets to be able to share when I do the Q &A piece.

Kym Powe (04:35)
I didn't, that's really interesting. So my parents are in Groton. When we moved to Connecticut, we moved to Groton and I had no idea that that was something that existed. So I'm gonna have to tell my dad for sure. Military buff. Well, I mean, he just is in the military. [crosstalk] don't know if you'd call him. But that's really interesting. didn't know about that. Is that digitized? Like, is that something that we could access that way yet? 

Kevin Johnson (04:57)
No, not yet.

Kym Powe (04:58)
Not yet? Okay, but not yet it's coming.

Matt Geeza (05:02)
Probably on a long list of items to be digitized from the state library. [crosstalk]

So I'm reading, well actually I just finished recently a novel called The End of Drum Time by Hanna Pylväinen. It's historical fiction, it's set in what is now present day Sweden in 1851, but it's way far north, kind of where Norway, Sweden, Finland all come together up near the Arctic Circle or within the Arctic Circle. 

And it's sort of a...story of two star-crossed Willa is the daughter of a preacher that's called Mad Lasse who actually turns out was this character is based on an actual preacher, Lutheran minister named Lars Levi Lestaedius, who did in fact go, he was a missionary to the Sami people up in northern Sweden in the mid-19th century. 

And so his daughter falls in love with Ivvar who is a Sami reindeer herder. And so it's kind of an interesting exploration of sort of the clash of two different cultures, sort of Swedish culture, but also because of the location, there's Norwegians, there's Finns, there's the Sami people.

But there's definitely that European attitude towards we're coming into this area and we're going to convert the Sami people to Christianity. And the Sami people are sort of reckoning with their traditional way of life, which is really following the reindeer herds. They're not fully domesticated reindeer. That's one of the parts I found fascinating is that they're doing their best to sort of control the reindeer, but it's, they're not like cattle or other livestock that have been fully domesticated. 

But anyway, know, just a beautifully written historical fiction, very literary historical fiction. Pylväinen the author, I did a little background reading. She is someone of Finnish ancestry that grew up in Michigan. But then to do research, she lived with the Sami people for about six months. She does a great job of weaving in Sami culture and traditions in a way that it kind of gradually unfolds and you're learning as you go along and learning more about the characters and their way of life. So, highly recommend The End of Drum Time.

Kym Powe (07:32)
Awesome.

Ashley Sklar (07:32)
Is it inappropriate to say that I've tasted reindeer? [crosstalk] I was like, reindeer. Uh-huh. Well, because it's I can't say it was particularly memorable, but we took our honeymoon in Norway and reindeer is like a very common meat. So I didn't I had it in like it was kind of like a bar type place. It was just like a wrap, but it was like reindeer meat. So I can't say that it was like a particularly distinctive taste or flavor, but I did, I did. I was like, it's like a local thing. to try. I have to try. I'll try almost anything. I'm, I'm not, no Anthony Bourdain, but I will. Reindeer I could handle.

Matt Geeza (08:15)
Yeah, and reindeer are to the Sami of like Bison are to the plains people, indigenous peoples of North America here where, you know, everything about their culture was centered around that animal. even today, like if you go out west, you can have bison meat. It's pretty common. So it doesn't surprise me reindeer are still on the menu in parts of Northern Europe.

Ashley Sklar (08:42)
Well, Kevin, we're thrilled to have you here. I know you told us your very long title, but we'd love to hear what are behind all those words. Can you tell us more about your role at the State Library? What do you do?

Kevin Johnson (08:55)
Wow, just thinking back to joining with the State Library back in 1988.

Kym Powe (09:04)
No, Kevin, I was one. [crosstalk]

I was born in November so I was like three months old depending on when you started

Kevin Johnson (09:15)
August, May of 1988.

Kym Powe (09:19)
So I wasn't quite one I was months old. [crosstalk]

Kevin Johnson (09:23)
Been at the place a long time. But the journey to the State Library is very interesting. Started out working on the toll bridge, student at Eastern Connecticut State University, working the summers through my mom, allowing me to get on the job at the DOT. So I'm on the Charter Oak Bridge, which you know, we have no more tolls now. [crosstalk] So, one of the last takers there. And then they moved us all in 1988, 89. And I landed at the State Library.

Working for the State Library was just very interesting. Never thought I would be at the State Library, but here it is. And started working there, first starting off
working in our stacks and handling all of our collection. Then gradually, you know, through upgrades and things, began to move, learn more about the technical side of the library and began to grow from there and became a library technician. 

But in the meantime, here I am, you know, studying and began to get into historical reenacting. Dean Nelson pulls me to the side and says, Kev, how would you like to become Denzel Washington for a moment? And then sharing that piece got me started with the Civil War and that journey of sharing.

Connecticut 29th history launched from there. And that been a 26-year journey of talking about Private William Webb of the 29th and the other characters began to come after that. That was just my start moving from this toll bridge into the State Library in 1988. And here it is now, two thousand and twenty-six, so thirty-eight years coming up in May.

Ashley Sklar (11:05)
My goodness. Congratulations. I mean, that's a story. And you've already stolen my next question, which is describing your professional journey. Like, how did you get to the State Library and what drew you here? But maybe I will ask, like, what kept you here?

Kevin Johnson (11:22)
That's a great question.

What kept me was the interest. You know, one, handling our amazing collection. I think many of our residents don't realize what we have at the State Library. [crosstalk] It is truly a treasure trove of just great, great information. And so when you're handling from the archives to the stacks and just dealing with, you know, the physical aspect of the collection. Have you ever just held a book from 1770? Oh, man, it's just fascinating. Sorry, I get excited.

Ashley Sklar (11:54)
I think you're in the right room.

Kevin Johnson (11:56)
Handling those, those documents those items does something to you and so that part has really been a keeping factor That made me want to stay and then now you know learning more about our history our state history as well as our country's history It's just so intriguing and Connecticut has so many great stories hidden stories that we just don't know

And the beauty of the State Library and History of Genealogy Department is having families or individuals come in and begin to dive into their family history and make their connection to the past. And once that happens, now you're picking up something new. Now you say, I didn't realize that. Now you're uncovering documents that we may not have looked at.

You know, we have so many record groups in the archives and there's so many just hidden stuff that's there. So that kept me ⁓ and that continues to keep me. How many more years? I'm not sure.

Ashley Sklar (12:59)
I'm not asking.

Kevin Johnson (13:02)
But I'm not in a hurry. That's one of the beauties is that I'm not in a hurry to retire. I actually like my job. I like the agency. I like my colleagues. And so that is a keeping factor when you work with good people and it just keeps you there.

Ashley Sklar (13:17)
Absolutely. 

And I think that that is actually something I've heard from so many people who work at the State Library. We have a lot of people that have spent a really large part of their career, once they get here, at the State Library. I know in DLD we're kind of mostly newbies at this point, that's kind of the oldest newbie. [crosstalk] But there was a lot of people that kind of like left to open up all of these positions were people that were here for I think like 20, 25, 30, I don't even, like a long number of years. And I think it speaks to sort of the culture of this place and the work that we do.

Kym Powe (13:53)
We had one colleague who had been working here for longer than I had been alive. longer than, and when she said that I was like, oh no, I haven't been here that long, like on earth. So yeah, I think once people get here, they stay, cause why not?

Ashley Sklar (14:15)
And you're surrounded by good people. Have to be, you have good people.

Kym Powe (14:18)
I’m curious, Kevin, because I have such an interesting, well not interesting, I think it's actually pretty common relationship with history, period. Just like the way that it's taught, it's, you know, it's a whole thing. But when you started with the State Library, said you kind of like worked your way up to where you are now, history and genealogy and archives. Were you already a history buff or is that something that grew with your time in the State Library?

Kevin Johnson (14:46)
Something that grew. I enjoyed history, you know, from school and just my own family history. Being family members from the South, really close with my grandmother in Alabama and just sharing stories about the family was really intriguing for me and talking to her just about our family journey dating back to, you know, late 1790s and my great, great, great grandfather, you know, was brought over as a captive and down in Virginia and is purchased and moved to Alabama. So that story pulled me to land at the History and Genealogy Unit. I think that was just a divine plan. [crosstalk]

And so sharing that love with my grandmother and then my childhood ministers to always say, you you study anything, study history. My dad was really into history. So those things were things that really pulled me. So to land at the State Library, this is my blessing in disguise right now. so, yeah, just get excited about it, but always loved history. I love that.

Matt Geeza (15:57)
You were talking about the history and genealogy department. For those of people who might be listening that aren't familiar with the state library, we often are trying to highlight some of the resources that are available. So can you just talk a little bit more about the history and genealogy section and how you can assist patrons and Connecticut residents?

Kevin Johnson (16:18)
All right, let's see. Where do we begin? I always like to start and think back to the movie Roots with Alex Haley. Alex Haley, you know, discovered his family history and began to share how he did that research. 

And when I think of our unit at the State Library, that's what we do. We help people to make their connection to the past. And that beauty is there diving into the census records. 

I got to pause. Got to pause because we have a great reference staff. So I got to give my colleagues a shout out because we have a great reference staff that loves what they do and very skilled and knowledgeable and understanding our collection.

So for folks coming in, first thing you want to do is stop at the door, stop at the desk. As you stop at the desk, bring some information with you. If it's a date, if it's an obituary, it's a funeral bulletin, anything that you have about your family, bring it in, start there. And then that allows our staff, as well as myself, to be able to give you the direction.

One of the things we don't want to do is do the family history for you because we may miss something that may be of interest to you. And so we want you to take the journey. We want you to dive into it, dive into the census volumes, those vital records and began to experience, you know, looking at a document that may list a number of family members.

You know, when you start seeing great, great grandma or auntie here or there, that starts to excite you. So when you dive into those vital records, you get that the land records. As an African American, we know that our journey is filled within the land records being, you know, as property. So when you do all that discovery, you know, those items are there. So you're looking into the land records and then you're finding those properties. 

But then the jewel is the court documents, because court documents give you so much information into your family. And many people don't realize that through purchases of land or through crimes or whatever it might be, divorce, those kinds of things, you start finding information about your family that you didn't realize. And no, so we just have a place to work and great information. 

And so for the public, come in. Visit us, I'm looking into the mic, visit us. Yeah, and just get excited about discovering who you are and who your family was and where did they come from. And I think that's the journey, Matt, that I really want to get across to our listeners that State Library is just a great place and there's so many things. I'm just scratching the surface, but it's a lot deeper than that.

Matt Geeza (19:08)
It's so true, but I'm glad you can illuminate that for us, at least the section that you know, a little part of the State Library that you're involved with. So you alluded to how you got involved with living history and reenacting and where somebody pulled you aside. Can you tell us a little bit more about that story, just expand upon that?

Denzel Washington was referred and I'm assuming is he referring to Glory the movie Glory.

Kevin Johnson (19:31)
Yes. So how that all started back in, wow, 1997. I know Kym is saying boy, he's old, he's old

Kym Powe (19:46)
Well, I think my brother was one. I reference everything. I held was I held was a kid.

Ashley Sklar (19:49)
I was in high school then, yep.

Kevin Johnson (19:54)
So in 1997, the city of Hartford was beginning to do its first African-American parade in the city. And one of the things that we were asked to do was to share about the black regiment, the 29th Connecticut Volunteers, the Colored Soldiers. And we were asked to participate. so Dean approached me then, and he shared with me, Kev.

How would you like to become Denzel Washington? And sure enough, I said, sure. So what he had me do was we walked down to Bushnell Park to the Soldiers and Sailors Monument and we're standing there and took a series of photographs under the monument. And as I'm standing there, this gentleman comes along.

And he looks at me and I'm in a Civil War uniform and he says, man, you remind me of one of the Buffalo soldiers. And as you know, the Buffalo soldiers, those black soldiers that stayed in the army after the Civil War went down south and the Texas made a great name for themselves. But I said, no, sir, not one of the Buffalo soldiers. And he looks a little closer. He says, man, you remind me of Denzel Washington. You sure you're not Denzel? No, not Denzel. 

And so we began to just share and then how the journey launched was he asked if I can go over to the UConn branch in West Hartford and just share a bit of the information. And so now I realized at this moment, okay, I need to go back to the state library and we need to expand on this story. I'm just dressed in a uniform, but not knowing what that was going to lead to. 

So diving back into the great state Connecticut State Library, located 231 Capitol Avenue, Hartford, Connecticut. As we dive back into the archives, began to scroll down. Didn't have a soldier at that time, just dressed in period clothing. But we needed a soldier and began to scroll down the enlistment papers and the finger stopped on William Webb. Had no clue who William Webb was.

But I believe now over these 26 years of sharing that story that we really didn't select William Webb story I believe the story selected me to share and so as the finger stopped there began to do just the background research and Finding all this great information about private Webb his mom her marriage to Mr. Salisbury began his prison record and he went to prison. 

So I shared those great details, court records again, began to do that. And then the gentleman asked, when can I come over? And that date was February 10th of 1998. And that was my first presentation, dressed in period clothing, had a script before me, standing before the students in the classroom, and thought I can go in a shirt and tie.

But I decided to put on a Civil War uniform. And I said to myself, if the students don't remember a word I said, but visibly they would know that Connecticut had an African-American soldier that served in the Civil War. So that launched a journey, Matt. That was the beginning of the journey there, how I got started diving into talking about our records, as well as digging up information about Private William Webb's life.

Matt Geeza (23:20)
Amazing. So when you first started that first presentation was were you doing it in first person as as William Webb or where the was it initially kind of third person where you're talking more about the 29th regiment?

Kevin Johnson (23:33)
You're right on it, my friend. It was third person just talking about the story. But after that date, more dates started coming. I had no clue that this thing was going to take off and presented that first moment that got a nice clipping in the newspaper. And next thing you know, the phone is ringing. Kev, can you come over here? 

And so now the script is now becoming alive. And so it's no longer looking down at the lines on the paper. This thing is in my heart now. This thing is in my head. And then the more I began to study the period and looking at the movement of the regiment and feeling and understanding the horrors of battle, the journey that these soldiers were going through, and looking at William Webb's contribution, it's coming alive now, so I'm no longer just, you know, reenacting the story. This is a real story, a real person, you know, seeing the horrors of war, but also the triumph that's coming with gaining some of those victories. And so it's alive right now. And there's no more just Kevin reading or Kevin third person. This is now William Webb. 

Got to share this. I was doing a presentation and one of my good friends we were doing something for the Thurgood Marshall event for the courts. And I'm in New Haven, and I'm behind the scenes, the curtain, and getting ready to introduce me. And a young lady comes and she says, Kevin, we're getting ready to bring you forth. And all of a sudden, she tells me after, she says, my whole countenance changed. Now she's looking at me, asks Kevin. And she says, now we're getting ready to call William Webb. And she says, my appearance, my eyes, everything just shifted. And I became this person in this moment. And I'll never forget that because the look in her eyes when she shared that with me was like, really? And she said, yes, you became this guy. So it still just gives me chills even now just thinking about it. But it is alive, Matt, it is alive.

Matt Geeza (25:56)
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit more about like that that shift for you, you know in terms of going from third person to first person and you said, you know, she witnessed that sort of transformation as you started to sort of embody William Webb. How has the research that you've been doing and over the years informed or impacted that transformation do you think?

Kevin Johnson (26:21)
I think the more we study the more we dive into the humanity of the individuals really becomes, you know, the catalyst to what we do as presenters and reenactors, just trying to give them the feeling. As school teachers would say, it brings the what's on paper to life. And that's my journey is bringing it to life. 

We think about the journey of Africans in America and we forget, you know, that these are people, these are human beings with feelings and, you know, all the the above and studying the piece, the portions of history, looking at the actual documents allows you to be able to feel that to what they're going through and that transition just comes through knowledge, know, through information and then the experience of tapping into that human experience and that's what I really try to tap into as the presenter and letting the audience know, you know, to leave with not just you know, William Webb as an African American, but this is a human story. This is a story that we can all relate to. 

And so that shift is something that I think is beyond me. I don't recognize it. I just share in this particular moment. But the more we learn, the more you're able to have the authority in sharing that piece and then knowing, you know, that this is a real event that occurred. It’s not fiction. 

There are moments that I cry, you know, on stage and the students will ask, did you really cry? Yeah. When you think about a, you know, a battle and you're seeing bodies all around and reading the Connecticut War Record a newspaper that followed each of our Connecticut regiments, giving some of the horror of this. And these are just average men, you know, going into this horrible battle. And when you start seeing that, that has to move you.

And so when that moves you, how do you convey that to the audience? So I never know. I present and next thing you know, here come the tears. So you get that consumed by it and it just takes you over.

Matt Geeza (28:31)
I'm wondering, because listeners might be curious, can you give us a little sketch of the experiences of the 29th Colored Regiment during the Civil War?

Kevin Johnson (28:39)
Are you asking me to bring William Webb out right now? [crosstalk]

Matt Geeza (28:44)
No pressure. If William needs to tell us this story or if Kevin wants to tell the story, it's up to you. [crosstalk]

Kevin Johnson (28:53)
All right, let's see what we can tap into in the quick moment here. 

Said I'm free 
Praise the Lord I'm free 
No longer bound 
There's no more chains holding me 
My soul is resting 
And it's such a blessing
to praise the Lord. 
Hallelujah, I'm free. 

Freedom. Said it sounds good and it sounds nice. Got to be free. 

Greetings to all of you. My name is Private William Riley Salisbury Webb of the 29th Connecticut Volunteers and I fought in the Civil War. Now that old song that you heard me come in on was what our fight was all about an opportunity and a chance at freedom. 

When I think back until the time of enlistment, I can still hear Sergeant Alexander Newton say, I enlist until this conflict, until the clanking of slave chains shall be heard no more. 

Listen. There's no more clanking, there's no more slave chain. 

Said I'm free, praise the Lord.
I'm free. Freedom. 
Said it sounds good and it sounds nice. 
Got to be free. 

I better stop right there because you're going to make me go.

Kym Powe (30:27)
Oh man. Oh. [crosstalk]

Matt Geeza (30:28)
Thank you for sharing. It was so powerful.

Kym Powe (30:32)
I've seen a recording of you doing that sort of in full garb and to sit here and sort of see you in action and to know that you're like looking at the person who created this character. Cause like you're saying that often I think what happens, especially now when people talk about history and they talk about like a group of people, right? So it'd be that black Americans or whoever I think they're talking about people like as the group, right? 

And so as you mentioned, it's, and Jennifer from the museum talked about this a bit in her episode too. There's something to be said for personifying. So she was talking about sort of these items that they're finding, but you are actually personifying a grouping of people that for so long have been talked about as a group. And I think that's really needed right now, right? To sort of remember that when we're having these conversations about our history as a country or our history, you know, as, you know, two black Americans, they're real people behind that. They're like, they're just like Joe Connecticut, right? But just like a real human being who just wanted to live, like who just wanted to be alive and live a life. 

And personifying that and presenting that like in first person. I know that that wasn't the intent originally, but I think the power that it adds to the story of William Webb and of the 29th Regiment and the other people that you've created, I think can go a long way towards making history accessible and understandable. And I think keeping the fact that when we have these conversations, it's not some like amorphous other, right? Like it's not like, you know, Plymouth Rock, right? Like, no, there was this man and his name was William and this was his life. I just think it's absolutely amazing. my gosh. 

And you write all of this? So like that, what you just gave, like you took your research and you like, built this script basically, is that what happened? 

Kevin, listen, I don't know if you know this. This came up in one of our episodes. I myself am a theater major.

Ashley Sklar (32:59)
So glad you went there because I've been wanting to ask.

Kym Powe (33:01)
Whole degree on my mom's wall, it's not on my wall, she wouldn't let me keep my diploma.

Ashley Sklar (33:05)
She's a proud mama.

Kym Powe (33:06)
Whatever. 

But what you do, there's a vulnerability in performance. That's probably why I was never that great at it. You really truly have to let go of pride. 

And you were choosing to step into the lives of people in one of the most detrimental times for our people in this country. You built this person and then you become this person. Like you said, the person watched your entire demeanor change and watched Kevin go to sleep and William Webb wake up. And again, just during a time that is just sometimes really sad, just sad and heartbreaking to think about. 

And I'm wondering, but like you continue, you've been doing this for like 20 some odd years. This is a thing that you wake up and you're like, yeah, gonna do it again today. I just find that so honorable and so brave. And I can imagine like emotionally taxing sometimes. And is there just sort of within your comfort level, is there just, like, I don't know if why is my question or, how is my question? But that's a heavy lift. That's a heavy lift for a person to do and you choose to lift it and do it constantly.

Kevin Johnson (34:44)
Wow, Kym, you got deep on me. [crosstalk] But just just thinking about, know, the depth of your question. 

One, I try not to ever just turn this on and just do this. It means more to me than that. Just as a presenter, as an African-American understanding the journey, I just don't want to flip a switch and now I'm become William Webb. That is hard. 

The beauty of sharing in that moment here when Matt responded that way, it was because we're here. I'm in this space now. So William, Jordan, Professor Jim, all those guys are right here with us now. So I'm in this space and to be able to lose self because it's not my story. It is their story. It is our collective story.

But to be able to be present and to share that story, being Civil War or Rev War or even Professor Jim's story a little bit later, it's just their story. And to tap into it, want to do them justice, stand on great shoulders and to be able to have the opportunity, the privilege of representing the history, representing the race. That is vital for me. And don't take it lightly. 

Knowing the journey of Africans in America and to be able to share their contribution. I get excited. I get excited. So for me, it's always triumph. It's never a pity party. I think the worst time in our history is slavery. And to be able to have the greatness come out of that says a lot about the people, about the person. 

And so every time I present, yeah, I am full of life and energy, but also the sadness, the reality, the horror, all those are wrapped up inside the story and try to convey that to each group is something that is just a emotional drain. And so there are times where schools may say, Kev, do you think you can give us two presentations? I'm like, no, this is not Broadway. I'm not a paid actor. I work for the state library. 

And so all those things just remind me. And I give great shout out to those professional actors that do this for a living and are able to, you know, present and perform and then two hours, three hours later, come right back and do a bang up job again. That is just an awesome feat. So I applaud those individuals that are able to do that.

For me and for the content that we're sharing. I just can't do that because it drains me, as you said. It depletes me of everything because I'm given my all in every presentation and the presentations are usually 20 minutes. Twenty minutes, 25 minutes in character, but for those 20, 25 minutes, yeah, I'm spent after that. 

So Kym, that's a great analysis of that. And I definitely go through each of those experiences every time I have to share when it's two presentations a week, which now that I'm a little bit more mature. So I don't do two presentations in a week. So it might be one a week. And what I try to do is give myself recovery time to be able to regroup and know that in a couple of days have to go through that feeling again. 

You know, so there are times when I might be up at night and I'm just, you know, pacing. You know, the nerves are always there. My colleagues say all the time and I tell them, why you look so nervous? Because I am nervous. Until I get going, it is that I take it that serious. That is not just a performance for me. That's why I call it a historical presentation, because these are real events and I'm not just acting, I'm reliving the story. 

So thank you Kym That's a deep question but that's my short way around it.

Kym Powe (39:20)
It's great. It's a great response. I feel like you bear this responsibility with the utmost respect and I personally am just as thankful. I'm thankful for it. [crosstalk] So, Kevin, I knew you before I even started here. knew of Kevin and your presentations, I think from working with the Black Caucus.

So it was great when we met really quickly one time at the State Library for like two seconds, but it's just really great to have you here and to tell us about these characters and the research and sort of its connection to Connecticut and history and libraries is really important. And thank you for driving down to do it with us.

Kevin Johnson (40:05)
Well, this is a great honor for me to be here with you three. yeah, I'm excited about this. So thank you, Matt, Ashley. Thank you, Kym, for inviting me to be a part of this.

Matt Geeza (40:15)
Our pleasure. So Kevin, mentioned, well, William Webb is how you kind of got started with living history and reenacting. But there are two other people that you portray now. Jordan Freeman and James H. Williams, also known as Professor Jim.

So can you tell us a little bit how you kind of expanded from William Webb to two additional people that you portray? And feel free to also give a little sketch of you know, who those people because they represent two different eras. Jordan [crosstalk] is the American Revolutionary period. And if I'm not mistaken, James H. Williams was born in the late 18th century and died late in the 19th century. So he's spanned most of the 19th century.

Kevin Johnson (41:02)
Yeah, great, great, great question. Matt is pulling me in here. I knew I should have worn my uniform. started to do that. Somewhere along the line, I was saying he's gonna want me to present something here.

Kym Powe (41:14)
Matt’s the group history buff of us. [crosstalk]

Kevin Johnson (41:18)
So this is a great question about how I got started really doing Jordan was coming out of the research as we continue to read. And one of the beauties that I've found is that the information is there. It just needs to be discovered. And I believe at the appointed time, it is revealed to us.

So for all of our researchers that are listening, continue to dig, continue to dig. Looking in the light, continue to dig, continue to dig because it's there. It just hasn't revealed itself yet. And so the beauty of doing what we do at the State Library is helping people make that connection. But the dig continues.

To back up for a moment. William Webb went through, when I found him in 1860, yeah, went to prison, but it said he was married and he was married before going into the war, but didn't realize prior to that he had served, went through a divorce when he went to prison. And so 20 years later, Mel Smith, our unit head, going through the New Haven divorces, guess what he found? The document where William Webb's wife divorced him. And that's 20 years later, had no idea. Just thinking, well, that might've just been, you know, from the census taker an error but it was actual fact. And Mel, 20 years later, discovered this document of William Webb's first marriage divorce. So it's there, the information just ready to be discovered. But 20 years later, I'll share the story. And there it is. And so never give up to our researchers. 

And so in doing the research, I came across a revolutionary war and was understanding the battle partake of the war and how this whole thing is. I try not to get into too many of the battles. That's where I need talk with Dean Nelson, our former director of our museum, because he's a Civil War buff. But mine is the human story. Dean loved the battles and diving into those. But looking at the battles, because those were going to be questions I was going to have to deal with at times, trying to understand the strategy of those, but discovering the battles looked at the Revolutionary War period. And we've seen how Revolutionary War video kind of takes are, they're kind of standing, you 100 yards apart and firing. going, man, that is cruel, you know? But yet it is what it is, you know? 

And so looking at the battles, looking at the Revolutionary War, I discovered Jordan Freeman, and understanding and not knowing really his story. And so when I looked at one of Dave White, who was our one of our museum directors, put together a bicentennial for the Revolutionary War and Black Americans. And he titled it The Black Soldiers of the Revolutionary War of Connecticut. Great book, great piece. And in it was a photo of Jordan Freeman with the Groton Heights battle. And there's a big boulder there with Jordan actually killing Captain Montgomery, Major Montgomery, and not knowing who he was, began to dive into it and try to research it out and discover who was this Jordan Freeman. 

And as we challenged it, took on the task, and I say we because now this is a group effort. Our staff has always taken part in every presentation, to make sure as an agency, as a unit, that we have the right information. That's the beauty of the State Library, that we want to be as accurate as we can because we represent the State Library. And so, you know, that's important for us. 

And so, trying to make sure we do that, covering up Jordan Freeman's story, was able to just kind of track back little pieces, still searching. because the evidence for that period is so hard to find. I knew he was at the Battle of Fort Griswold and the Connecticut Intelligencer article of October of 1781, the battle takes place September 6th, 1781. I'm not going to give all the details, Matt, because I got a full schedule this year. [crosstalk] So for our listeners, you got to come. You got to come.

But discovering that it gives us the hard evidence of Jordan being at the battle and killed along with another African-American, Lambo Latham, that they were both killed at the battle. So that's our concrete evidence of him being there. 

And then as I was sharing earlier in the book, the pamphlets that talk about the battle and given an account of those who survived and their accounts talk about Jordan Freeman killing Major Montgomery.

And found another document that I will start sharing now is as a freedom seeker. Found Jordan Freeman as a freedom seeker, which I believe is our Jordan. Had him kind of tangled with the Lord family, but I believe he's this runaway. That's our Jordan. So that's the story now that I'm sharing because this enslaver is talking about Jordan as this claiming to be a free person. And whenever you look at African-American history from that particular piece, using the term Freeman, 98 % chance that he's a free person. But he is with Colonel Ledyard, and South-East and Black roots does give that indication there. But there's still more to the story, but that's the dig of starting it and then now portraying it. 

I'm still exhaling William Webb. Because you know, I'm not presenting where you have anymore. After 26 years, 680 times. Wow. And I knew at some point was going to have to come to a close because he was 29 when he enlisted and passed away at 34. And so I was trying to figure out, Miss Ashley, how much more can I portray a 26-year-old, a 34-year-old. So I needed to change. 

So Jordan is closer to the age, I still got Jordan by some years, but a little bit closer. But that was the beginning of Jordan Freeman, which truly tells the heart of our country. And for African-American contribution, as we've now entered into 250th, my schedule is full from now to June 24th. I believe on record that I have now 22 presentations. So I'm doing...

Ashley Sklar (48:04)
Between now and June? Oh my goodness.

Kevin Johnson (48:05)
I will present be presenting at least four presentations a month and I'm already going into the next season which our season runs for your listeners September to June usually the school year and I'm already taking dates now for September which I already have on the calendar September October and November.

Ashley Sklar (48:27)
I hope you have a long recovery period planned for those summer months.

Kevin Johnson (48:30)
I take the summer off. Don't do any program, no research. Just kind of allow myself time to exhale and then to be ready to go back out. 

But that is the Jordan Freeman story, which is still being developed, I would say, if I can use that word. Although I've been sharing him now for some time, but we're still discovering information. Then the beauty of the Revolutionary War period in Connecticut soldiers, we're discovering more about each of those individuals. Connecticut enlisted nearly 500 soldiers. And so that's 499 other individuals that we had to kind of touch base on. And so there's a few that I have that I share within the Q &A portion of the story, but there's just a great piece of information there. So I'm diving in more along with the colleagues, finding out all that we can to share that. And then Professor Jim.

Is that the next question or go right into it?

Ashley Sklar (49:27)
Can I just, as I'm listening to you, just, I love for whatever reason, it just clicked with me in this last, your last response of this. You're sort of like turning this living history into this living practice because you know, you're, you were reminding our listeners or anyone who visiting the State Library who's doing research to keep going with it. And I love that you were just saying, you know, I've been performing Jordan and yet I'm still learning and I'm still developing it. 

And it's still like so it's like, you know, I think you know, sometimes I'll say like, we have these like living documents, right? And that in like some of the work that we do that, you know, it's not kind of finalized, but for so much, right? You like you write the book and then it has to be done, right? And has to go to print and has to get published and it's done. But the beauty of what you're doing is that it's not ever really done. Right. It's like it can evolve and you can learn something right. Or learning of William Webb's divorce after you've been performing him for 20 years. I mean, that that adds a sort of like a depth, right? And I think touches in on some of the things that you were talking about earlier, Kym, about like really understanding the vulnerability of a human story, right? And understanding that there's going to be all this nuance and it's sort of never going to be right, because we can't always fully embody, right? Somebody else's experience. But to continue to massage that and chase that is just really incredible. 

So I just wanted to note that before you jump into Professor Jim.

Kevin Johnson (50:54)
That's great. great. I think Kym mentioned earlier too about the script and writing the script. I didn't write the script. And so after we put all the information together, I had to kind of steal away and I keep sharing with Mel, you know, got to let me go up to New Hampshire to an old cabin [crosstalk] and I can just start writing and do that. And so to share the script is just adding pieces. 

I'm actually revising my Jordan Freeman script. [crosstalk] Now, as we're approaching this period, I looked at the previous script that is on paper and on my computer. And as I'm reading it and I'm saying, boy, I've added stuff here. I've added the entire paragraph that's right here. That's not on my original script.

Ashley Sklar (51:45)
Right, right. You're soaking it in, you're absorbing and then it's coming out, right? But maybe it doesn't make it to the printed page.

Kevin Johnson (51:52)
But I got to put it in because I want to keep the documentation, which I think is crucial for us.

Kym Powe (51:58)
Your own archives, know, the archives of your project and your work and these people. Man, if there's one thing librarians gonna do, it's write something down. Where it goes, I don't always know, but it is written somewhere. Probably. [crosstalk]

Kevin Johnson (52:13)
Yeah.

Matt Geeza (52:15)
Tell us a little bit about Professor Jim.

Kevin Johnson (52:17)
All right, so Professor Jim, this is my guy here. So I'm going to get really excited about Professor Jim. I love his story. Discover Professor Jim. I didn't discover it. Actually, Glenn Sherman discovered Professor Jim. Worked it in the library and Glenn is in our preservation office and he was upstairs on the sixth floor. 

If you don't know, the State Library has six levels of just books. And so if you haven't got a chance to visit, please come take a walk, take a look. It's great. 

And so Glenn discovers this book, which I have here. So the listeners, you can't see the book because we're on the podcast, but I'm showing our team. But this little book is a story of Professor James, Professor Jim Williams, written by Proctor, a graduate of the University 1873.

And Glenn shares his book with me and says, Kev, I got your next story for you. And I'm looking at it. I'm going, I'm not telling that story. But it just began to intrigue me. 

One, he's not a soldier. And so I don't have to go into the whole horrors of battle and dealing with that piece. But what fascinated me with his journey of 50 years of serving Trinity College. And as I read Proctor's book so many times, just gleaned in a great nuggets from the book. I was telling Ken, I said, got a new story told Dick Roberts, our former unit head and said, well, we need to develop it. 

And it's been on the back burner for probably seven years. Seven years because I'm out doing William Webb, out doing Jordan Freeman. And it wasn't the time for it. And so I said, let me sit down one day and let me see if I can convince Mel to send me to New Hampshire so I can write. And so I started writing the story. 

And as I began to dive into what the book was, Christine Pittsley had a team from Trinity that came over and they began to do, they were doing an internship and dived into the records and discovered, you know, great information about Professor Jim's story that we can put into the archives, always want to make sure that we can attach the story to actual documents. So that way when our researchers come in, they can begin to say, hey, we found, we heard about this document, we heard about this. And so we want to always make sure we can do that. 

And so as we did that piece and got all of the facts together that we can find, had to write the story. But in writing the story, where do I want to begin? Because he has such a fascinating journey. 

The journey stems from late 1700s going into the War of 1812 where he was impressed then landed at Trinity College and served the city of Hartford, the AME Zion Church, buried in Old North Cemetery but just this body of life and it was my give back to our seniors. To everyone that got gray hair, it was my give back. Because I just think what we've witnessed in life and Jim's life covered so many important pieces of American history. 

And when I tried to share, when I share the story, I portray him at the age of 83. And so I'm an older gentleman. So now my acting skills have to come out because I'm intentional about this, not wanting to be William Webb nor do I want to be Jordan Freeman as I share the story of Professor Jim. So I need to take on a whole new persona of this old man with all this wisdom, Miss Ashley. And so when I think of his story, it takes me to a whole another level, a deep level of who I am as an individual, as a presenter, and I need to tap into that. 

And so Jim movement through American history is just phenomenal. And when Proctor writes the book, he wants everyone to experience this old janitor and his impact upon the Trinity College. And that is just fascinating. That is moving. And so I'm not going to get it because I got like four presentations in February. Some of your listeners are probably listening to this now. But the story is still evolving.

As I continue to exhale Private Webb, and I say exhale, because he's a part of my journey. He's here. And as that story begins to, you know, sit back on a far space, you know, in my heart and in my mind, now Jim can began to come forward. And I just love the story because I just think it's just so many moving parts. But his journey at sea is just powerful which makes him a world traveler. So I know he, doesn't say, but I know he had to speak different languages. So he gives me.

Kym Powe (57:41)
We're going to find it. We're going to find the document.

Kevin Johnson (57:44)
And so you look at this gentleman and you just think as a janitor. And this is where the profession does not, what is the word I'm looking for, describe or define the person. You know, when you think of a janitor, you're just thinking of this lowly janitor, but he's much more than that, you know, and he's bigger than that. And so to be able to share who he is, is just a great part of what we do at the State Library, what the librarian has allowed me to do, to share. And so I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited. But I could talk about this for a long time, I'm sorry.

Matt Geeza (58:28)
That's okay. That's why you're here. One of the things that really struck me a few minutes ago when you were describing the research process, you were talking about how it's really a collaborative effort amongst you and your colleagues.

And as someone who's done research over the years, I find the same thing. It's always a collaborative effort. Maybe the primary researcher is sort of driving the process, but at some point, they need to rely on others for assistance to help them uncover more information. So that's just really something I really appreciate was hearing that even for you in developing this, this is very much a collaborative effort.

Can you tell us a little bit more about, I know you've brought a few other sources, so can you just tell us a little bit more about some of the sources that have most excited you or that you've most relied on over the years to inform your work?

Kevin Johnson (59:20)
Wow, okay, so you know of Proctor's book about Professor Jim? Have you guys seen the picture of Jim? you see the photo?

So I got to show, know your listeners can't see that, but there's a photo of Jim.

Matthew Geeza (59:36)
Just to quickly interrupt for a second maybe we can do a quick audio description for our listeners.

So the image that we're seeing in Proctor's book is Professor Jim is a black and white sort of drawing and Professor Jim is seated, so we view him from waist up and he's not facing us full on. He's sort of turned away from us. We're seeing sort of like the right side of him more in profile. 

And the way he's dressed is he's wearing sort of mid-to-late 19th century clothing. He's got a frock coat or a jacket that he's wearing. Underneath that is a vest or also known as a waistcoat. And it looks like he has a pocket watch and fob chain. He's wearing a white shirt and a black bow tie. 

And Jim appears to be later in his years probably in his 70s or 80s in this particular image. He's got receding hair but he's wearing it slightly longer in the sides and back and he is sporting mutton chops or longer sideburns as well and on his face I would describe it as sort of a half smile almost a knowing smile. 

So that's a quick description of what we're viewing here in the studio and back to Kevin.

Kevin Johnson (1:00:54)
So I do put on period clothing and am looking like this gentleman. I got the gray hair to go with it. I got to get the sideburns now. But I think it's just a fascinating piece. And so that's the view, the look of Jim that I am carrying into character as we share the story there. But that book has helped me because it gives the firsthand account. And what Proctor wanted the readers and the people to understand the value of Jim's life that he thought it not robbery to leave this record behind. 

I think that's what we do at the State Library. We want people to find and discover their history so they can leave a record behind. And Proctor thought that this was something that needed to get out. And I think about, you know, at the period too, as an African American and Proctor being a white graduate student thought that this story was important at this particular time to share this story about an African-American in the 1880s.

Kym Powe (1:01:55)
Yeah, yeah. Very unusual. And what really jumps out to me in that picture, I think you were talking about just sort of like history and the legacy and sort of, you know, identifying who was the last enslaved person in your family. My dad's from Mississippi, so, and my mom and I were born in Oakland, home of the, you know, Black Panthers.

I did most of my education here in Connecticut. And we must have been doing something with history. And I asked my dad once, said, did you learn different history from what I learned? You know, being from Mississippi. And he said, absolutely, just absolutely. 

But so every once in a while, especially when we're in Mississippi, visiting my grandma, who's 91 years old as of this recording. you know, I was talking to him once about how I was watching something and a person realized that she was the first person in her family line born into like a freed America for black people. And so was talking to my dad and I was like, yeah, I like, I guess that'd be you. Like you were the first person in our family, you know, born with full rights, right?

And he looked at me, said, no, he said, it's not me. And I said, no, was like, no, no, because you're born in, you know, so I'm doing the math. And he said, no, he's like, you know, these laws didn't mean things to certain states, right? Like, you know, you can legally get rid of segregation if you want to, but if like an entire state or even a town doesn't want to abide by that, you don't actually have all of the freedoms that theoretically, you know, have been written into law for you. 

And he said, actually, you're the first one ([crosstalk] in the line born into, you know, this country with full freedoms. And, you know, I thought about that because, after my parents were born, you know, the laws had been written. And so when he said that, I was like, oh. 

And that picture that you just showed us, I see a dapper gentleman. Like dapper is the only word that I can come up with. But someone who, was there like a pocket watch or like a chain or something in that photo? Like you see, a person that I think without sort of like the visual representations, which is why I think it's amazing that you like fully embody like the dressing up, the costume is because it's like, like they were full people with pride and with respect and yes, and with dignity. And so I don't know, just looking at that picture, my first thought was like, we need to scan this. Everyone needs to see this photo.

So these stories, history though, they may be in 18th century, 19th century, sure. But when you look at it like that, it's like, no, this is actually so relevant and so closer to where we sit now in 2026, despite how like far apart the numbers sound. And so, again, just as we go through this, I'm like, oh man, Kevin's so great for this. Oh, thank goodness someone had to do it. And so I just, I don't know, just feeling big feelings, Kevin, feeling big feelings.

Kevin Johnson (1:05:05)
So when I put on the period clothing for Professor Jim it’s with dignity and pride. And when I saw the photo and think of what has been written about him through the book as well as through newspaper articles, the account of his journey is one that's full of pride. And I want to exude that. So when I share his story as this old wise man, so putting on those period clothing, it's a transformation, especially in the 1870s, coming through reconstruction. And for Proctor to put this in print says a lot about the impact that Jim had on his life. You know, and so this is a story that everyone needs to come and see me share. 

So back to the Revolutionary War, I got to share this one. Colored Patriots of the American Revolution written by William C. Nell is one of my go-tos. William C. Nell was an African-American historian and he discovered what he said, what he set out to do was what we do with the state library and the Connecticut State Library as a whole is helping people make their discovery to the past. So William C. Nell launched out to figure out and find out who were those individuals that served in the American Revolution. And so to write the Colored Patriots of the American Revolution did a journey back into the past of the 13 colonies and wrote a paragraph or chapter on each state and African-American contribution. So this is a powerful book that I believe every historian needs to have. Every writer after has built upon his work. 

I always like to give credit to those who start out the journey. I think so many times in history, we destroy your work, but people can only give you what they had access to. If you didn't know it was there, you can't use it. 20 years later, I filed a document for William Webb. So you only can write what you have access to. And so, so many times we destroy an individual's work, but they may have been limited. So why not take what they've started and build on it? And if we do that collectively, boy, we could have some great work out there, you know, because everyone has a piece. So we see now people are still building upon his work. And so this is a great book. I believe every historian should have it as we approach the 250th anniversary. You got to get it. There’s a copy out there, please have a copy. 

And then my go-to book, is The Voices of Black America, major speeches of by Negroes and the United States 1797 to 1971 edited by Philip Foner was a historian that definitely put out lot of great work pertaining to persons of color. But this has the speeches of so many prominent African-Americans that I love this book because it's just like, as I shared with the team earlier, it's like a good lawyer that has to do his work before presenting his case. And these writers and these individuals did their homework before standing before Congress or any group they needed to make sure they had their facts.

And as representative of the State Library that's what we try to do. That's what I try to do. Make sure we got our facts together first and then we present the facts. And it's so many hidden jewels and stories in here that I hadn't heard that they may make a case to that. It gives me another avenue to be able to prepare for the Q &A. So I'm always reading something about the period to try to just be well read as much as I can to do a good job for us. I don't know everything, but I work in a place that you can find stuff out. So I love that part. And so this has been my go-to. Each time I have to go out, I definitely take a glance at it and read it. 

One of the things I was just reading the other day from here was Malcolm X's speech to young people in the 60s. And what he was sharing with them was you got to do three things. You got to listen for yourself. You got to see for yourself and you got to think for yourself. And that's still credible today that we have to listen for ourselves. We have to see for ourselves and think for ourselves and sharing that with students from Mississippi. 

Kym Powe (1:09:43)
There you go.

Kevin Johnson (1:09:44)
And his talk with them was just a powerful movement that I just wanted to glance at. I've read it before, but just need to some certain things I target within my own spirit to be able to read. But this is a go to. And I believe every historian should have a copy of this because it just gives you a great collective work of great speeches in here. 

The I Have a Dream speech is in here. But Frederick Douglass speech about 4th of July. That's just a great speech. But if you want to really embody it. Stand up at your desk [crosstalk] and read the and Frederick Douglass could go for hours, you know? mean, he was a great orator, but he can go for hours. And so even as I'm reading some of these, I'm standing behind the desk and I'm reading them and I'm just envisioning the space. And so a powerful book, but one of my go-tos, man. One of my go-tos. 

But so many others that I have that I always try to read prior to presentations, but the main key for our programming is the archives, looking at the actual primary sources, which many of our listeners may not always get a chance to handle. And so we do that at the State Library, we handle these great documents.

Matt Geeza (1:11:04)
So I just have one more question. I'm not sure if Ashley and Kym do. But my question relates to the process of research. And especially when you're interacting with primary documents, there's times where you kind of run up against these roadblocks where it becomes a mystery. You can't kind of trace that down anymore because you don't have the source. And you shared one case where 20 years later with William Webb, you were able to find corroborating evidence of his divorce when you had originally read about it in a different source. 

So I'm wondering, and I think about like in my own research, I had a grandfather that served in the Second World War in the Navy. I know he was part of the underwater demolition teams at Okinawa. But if I look at his service record, it doesn't say that he's attached to the underwater demolition team. So that's sort of like a mystery is like, how do I chase that down and verify and then confirm that?

I'm wondering, is there any mystery for you right now that like, you know, in terms of your research and any of the people that you're researching that, at some point you hope you can resolve that mystery.

Kevin Johnson (1:12:12)
Oh yeah, yeah, Jordan Freeman is the one. Because it's just a hidden story. He just pops up on the scene of 1755. He's marrying, you know, Lily, the servant of Miss Mary Prentice. He's a part of the Ledyard family. Question is, how did he get with Colonel Ledyard? You know, how did he... So I can't find a document that traces that. The newspaper article, 1760, about the runaway, the Freedom Seeker gives me a good evidence that I believe this is our Jordan here, but how did he wind up with the Ledyard family? Still a mystery for me.

And then there's a court document that's in our New London paper collection where this Jordan is actually suing for work that he has done for someone and didn't receive pay. So I believe this is our Jordan. 

There's another piece of evidence that I'm looking for that I believe I discovered years ago that he worked on Fort Griswold, the place where he later dies. And so there's a they were paying individuals who built the fort. And I believe Jordan received a ticket for that. I can't locate I forgot which way did we find this piece. So the mystery continues. So there that story is one of the most mysterious stories that I've been researching. 

William Webb have great documentation and James Williams have great documentation. But this colonial piece is a mystery. And so hopefully we'll find this evidence and I, Jeannie Sherman and Maria and I are trying to locate one piece of primary document outside of this newspaper article from two weeks after the battle that lists him, but we want to find it in a ledger somewhere where we see his name. 

And so that part, Matt, is what's killing me right now. It's killing me. But we know through all of the events of individuals talking about the battle after Fort Griswold, and they're going into 1800s, the monument is built and they're having these ceremonies. Jordan has always mentioned what he did and killed Major Montgomery. So that factual piece from the residents of New London, Groton area is the only oral piece of this history that we have and they're sharing it. 

But I'm looking for that primary. [crosstalk] You know, be able to say this is our guy, we found him right here. And so, so that's the mystery. Never stop him because I believe it's there. He was a real person and I believe we're going to have some evidence of that. I don't know when it might hopefully I didn't retire yet and stop presenting. But but definitely hopefully we'll find something.

Kym Powe (1:15:15)
My question, and I guess this is, the fact that we haven't gotten there yet, you've got just a plethora of other performances that you're gonna be doing on these folks this year in honor of the 250. Where, the dates, the locations, where can we find that? And I'll definitely make sure to link to it, but where is all that information? Do you have your own Kevin website? Or is this on the State Library website?

Kevin Johnson (1:15:42)
It is on our blog, state library history and genealogy blog. If you scroll down to the left column there, you'll see William Webb. And once you click on it, then the three characters come up with the retired private William Webb. So viewers, please don't call me about the story. I did have to present Private Webb once, November 22nd. A good friend of ours, John Mills, did a piece on the 29th story and did the first walk or the second and walk after the gentleman made it home and did a walk around the city of Hartford. So I brought out Private Webb and did six minutes of Private Webb stories. Special occasion. So that's it. Was a special occasion. 

And so share that. But on the blog is the dates I will be uploading some today going into February. So it's going to be busy from here on. Four presentations, believe, of Professor Jim's story that I'll be sharing.

If it doesn't snow on Monday, we'll have our first kickoff. [crosstalk] We'll have kickoff on Jordan Freeman at an elementary school. We'll be sharing there and then we'll have some adult programming, Professor Jim's story there. Then March, all Jordan Freeman stories dealing with the 250th. So I'll be in Windsor, I'll be at Central. So I'll be all over the state, Newtown, just sharing the stories, but it'll all be on our blog. And we do have a calendar. So please listeners, if you can check it out. Just a great time of sharing American history, African-American contribution. And definitely we'll be excited about sharing these stories and let's just gather and have a good time.

Kym Powe (1:17:27)
Thank you so much. will link to that in our show notes so that it's always somewhere folks can find them. So Kevin, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been so thrilling and I could not appreciate your time more. So thank you again. I know we keep saying it, but thank you again for joining us today.

Ashley Sklar (1:17:44)
Thank you, Kevin.

Matt Geeza (1:17:46)
Thank you so much.

Kevin Johnson (1:17:47)
Thank you all for having me to come as my second podcast to ever do this. And so I'm excited and was excited about it. then just watching you watch me on that was just exciting. And then just a good feedback. So thank you for allowing me to be here. It's truly a pleasure.

Kym Powe (1:18:06)
Alright, and thank you so much for joining us under the Charter Oak, a podcast of the Connecticut State Library where we preserve the past to inform the future.