Building Community with I’m Your Neighbor Books

Ashley, Kym, and Matt are joined by Kirsten Cappy, the Executive Director of I’m Your Neighbor Books, an organization that cultivates a sense of belonging and engagement with immigrants and new Americans. We dive into the power of storytelling, community building, and cultivating meaningful conversation. Prepare to hear about a lot of books, feel big feelings, and learn about an organization working toward literary access.

What we’re reading:

·        The Rose Field by Philip Pullman

·        The Strongest Heart by Saadia Faruqi

·        Looking For Smoke by K.A. Cobell

·        Owl Diaries: A Woodland Wedding by Rebecca Elliott

·        Rave On: The Biography of Buddy Holly by Philip Norman

Resources we mentioned:

·        I’m Your Neighbor Books

·        Diverse Book Finder

·        AudioFile Magazine

Credit:

“Wholesome”

Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/be/3.0/

The Connecticut State Library. Preserving the Past to Inform the Future!

Transcript

Kym Powe (00:09)

Welcome to Under the Charter Oak, a podcast of the Connecticut State Library where we preserve the past to inform the future. My name is Kym Powe and I'm the children and young adult consultant.

Ashley Sklar (00:19)

Good morning, good afternoon, I'm not sure. I'm Ashley Sklar, I'm the Adult Services and Community Engagement Consultant.

Matt Geeza (00:26)

I'm Matt Geeza I'm the director of the Middletown Library Service Center and the Connecticut Library for Accessible Books. 

Kym Powe (00:32)

And we have a guest with us today. We are on a guest roll now and it feels really exciting. I'm going to let Kirsten introduce herself and where she's joining us from.

Kirsten Cappy (00:45)

I am Kirsten Cappy I'm the executive director of a nonprofit based in Maine, but working all over the mighty nation called I'm Your Neighbor Books, which is based in Portland, Maine, but here we are in sweet Connecticut.

Kym Powe (01:01)

The most random and unprepared podcast recording in the very short future [crosstalk] of this podcast. Short history. So as our guest, I'm gonna allow you to go first and tell us what are you reading?

Kirsten Cappy (01:14)

Well, for me, that is always what is in my earbuds and what is beside my bed. I am a long time Philip Pullman lover and the Rosefields came out on just three days ago, so that is in my earbuds and playing in my car and actually had to turn it off because it was too engaging and I was missing miles of like where exactly am I?

And on my bedside is Saadia Faruqi's The Strongest Heart.

Kym Powe (01:52)

Yes.

Kirsten Cappy (01:53)

Which is about a Pakistani family and the boy's father is struggling and the boy is struggling with anger that his father is struggling and it's all about how we need full comprehensive support for our families because kids just take in mental health issues in a different way than adults do. It is astonishing. It is really, really strong and beautiful.

Kym Powe (02:23)

Awesome. I love Saadi Faruqi so I shall add that to my, I shouldn't even start calling. I should stop calling it a to be read list. It's like a maybe one day if I can get there in the time of my life list of books. 

But so I am currently listening to also Looking for Smoke by K.A. Colbell, which is, I think Matt, before you'd been talking about reading a spooky book. I guess this is sort of my spooky book about an indigenous teenager who has just moved to her reservation, but doesn't quite feel like she fits in. There's just some issues there, but also a girl disappeared and it seems like they're not looking for her anymore and there's the potential for some other things to go missing. It's a really good book and I'm really loving it. And all chapter and a half, maybe two chapters, but they've been great chapters so far. 

How about you, Ashley?

Ashley Sklar (03:28)

So I am also listening to a book currently, not an audio book, but from my first grader who is reading to me each night which is precious and lovely. [crosstalk] So we are reading, and actually, so we are reading one of the Owl Diaries series, the one we're currently reading is A Woodland Wedding. These are by Rebecca Elliott. 

Our first one actually came from you, Kym. [crosstalk] Well, so you gave us Eva for president, is what, was fabulous. and then her teacher sent home, cause now she gets a packet of books sent home each week to read to us, which is joyous. She sent home A Woodland Wedding. So we are making our way through that. So these are really early elementary school, sweet little readers, kind of graphic novelish. but all about like this little class of owls that is figuring out their friendships and their dynamics and making their way through. 

And I have to say, I read her the one that you gave us, Kym, and then when her teacher sent it home, I was like, she's not gonna be able to read this. And she turned around and proved me wrong. I was like, oh, oh, she can totally read this. Okay, great. So we are two chapters in and we will continue this evening. It's joyous, it's great.

Matt Geeza (04:36)

I remember those books, actually. 

Ashley Sklar (04:47)

Do you really? I was gonna say they've been around, all right. 

Matt Geeza (04:49)

Yeah, well, with our daughter. [crosstalk] Not that long ago. 

Ashley Sklar (04:54)

True. Well, I was thinking, like, I thought they were brand, brand new, because. [crosstalk] No, okay. So see, I don't know. They're new to me, so I just think they're new. What about you, Matt? What are you reading? I'm sure it's not Owl Diaries still, because - yours is older now.

Matt Geeza (05:08)

I am reading a biography right now. It's called Rave On and it's a biography of Buddy Holly, the 1950s rock and roller. [crosstalk] I don't know why I picked this one, but just, music biographies are kind of a nice palate cleanser for me. And sometimes when I get maybe stuck reading, that's just where I'll end up going. 

Our colleague Brad, who I think we'll have on a future episode, he and I often start trading ideas for music biographies. So somehow I landed on this one. that's good. I'm about halfway through. The author is Philip Norman, and he's done a lot of music biographies, particularly of the Beatles, both collectively and individual biographies so it's good. 

Kym Powe (05:55)

John Paul George and Ringo. Is that right? 

Matt Geeza (05:59)

That's right. 

Kym Powe (06:00)

I, honestly, someone said that in a movie and that's the only reason why I know. [crosstalk] I'm like sure, sure, if you say so. I don't know, I don't listen. So anyway, thank you for sharing that. But we are not the highlight today. I'm Your Neighbor Books is the highlight. So you mentioned the nonprofit organization, where it's located. Tell us exactly what I'm Your Neighbor Books is. Like what is it and why is it?

Kirsten Cappy (06:26)

Well, you would not be surprised to know that it's about the power of story to change, change our perceptions of the world and change our perceptions of ourselves. 

So everything that we collect, curate, share, invite people to engage with are all immigrant and new generation children's books. So from pre-K to 12 and a wee bit beyond, we are inviting community members of all backgrounds and of all ages and of all English language abilities to step into in children's literature and read about an immigrant or a new generation family. 

And we do a lot of our work with illustrated books, so picture books, graphic novels, because I think in, you know if you've had children in your lives, you know the intimacy of picture books, that when that spread is open in front of you, that you just step into that moment and that you are with that family. 

This program started as a tiny little project in the state of Maine in 2017. And we were circulating 25 picture books with a set of discussion questions in the back to communities that did not have any immigrant representation. And I remember our very first survey asked kids do you see your family in the these books and 98% of those kids said I see my family and we knew there was no cultural or racial alignment. They just saw brothers and sisters and family and conflict and love and reimagining in those books.

So we run a database by certain theme, hundreds of cross-cultural themes, but what we really specifically do is create these book lists by community. 

So if you have Haitian families move into your neighborhood, into your community, you can build your cultural competency by reading novels and picture books about the Haitian community. If you are from a Haitian family imagine stepping into a public library or a school space and seeing that book standing up or seeing it in somebody's hands or seeing it on, right, read to your child, those stories can ground us in some really significant belonging.

Kym Powe (09:30)

I think that's beautiful. I think the way that you talk about the immersive properties of picture books between child and grown up who's reading them is spot on for anyone who's ever read to or with a child. 

My siblings are nine and 12 years younger than me. So I did a lot of reading with them. And as many people babysitting, for my own siblings and beyond for a large portion of my life and whether it's the first time that you're reading a book with the child or whether it's their favorite book and they will call you out if you try to skip pages of Rumpelstiltskin because it's a really long book and I don't understand why my neighbor really wanted me to read Rumpelstiltskin and I definitely tried to skip some pages on her and was called out so hard by this like four-year-old.

But watching them sort of go through the book, draw parallels between what's happening in the story and within their own lives is really powerful. And, you know, they might not fully process that to the same caliber that we as adults are able to just from age and learning. But there's something there and they're seeing similarities and they're drawing their own conclusions. 

So, yeah, for anyone who just hasn't had that, the joy or hasn't had it recently, I think you're spot on in using picture books as a form of communication and connection with your child, but also with your neighbor now or a potential neighbor. Because I mean, there must be some connection to that as well, right? Even if you don't have people from a certain national background, there's still something to be said for who your potential neighbor could be, right?

Kirsten Cappy (11:16)

Absolutely.

So one of the core things that we do is called the welcoming library and it takes 30 picture books that represent a wide, beautiful collection of community and puts them all together and says, this is right, this is our, this is our nation story, this is our neighborhood story and from that right, you see patterns in those books, you find cultural difference in those books, but together, you get a real sense of what our communities look like. 

And really, one of the inspirations for this was when I started working in schools and neighborhoods in 2000 as a children's bookseller and I was doing book fairs which was just my geeky, geeky happiness, you know, the first students to come through the door at my very first book fair, were two brilliant girls in hijab who said, where are your books on Somalia? And it was a month after 9-11. There was not anything set in East Africa, let alone set in Somalia that was available in the US. 

And then I had two sweet boys who in and said, where's your section on Islam?And I just put my head, hands on my head and it's like, there was not in 2000 a month after 9-11 when we needed cross-cultural communication, for both Muslim kids and non-Muslim kids. There was not a single children's book that had a Muslim family in it that wasn't a library reference book. 

And so there are ways in which we are learning, learning about each other and story. And we've always done that. We've always told stories to understand what community is, what growth is, who we are.

Kym Powe (13:17)

And Ashley's gonna remember this, but Matt, unfortunately, this is before your time with us. The State Library, we have four, I believe it's four, we've got four welcoming library kits ourselves. I think, I'm trying to remember how I found out that you all existed at all, and I just don't know. Presumably from other youth consultants, we talk to each other a lot, and reached out, and ultimately we got four kits of our own. Ashley was there, there are some photos that still exist [crosstalk] in the world. I think we decided earlier that that was in 2021 and we love those kits. At this very moment, all four of them are somewhere in the state of Connecticut in a classroom or in a library being used and loved. 

But you talked a bit about the fact that there's a curation process that goes into this. So as librarians, we too are very familiar with the curation process, but I imagine the process might be a little different for you all, or maybe it's exactly the same, I don't know. But can you tell us a little bit about how that goes? Is it like traditional reviews? Is it relationships with authors? Like what do you know? [crosstalk] Or publishers, tell us, because I'm gonna steal.

Kirsten Cappy (14:30)

It is a mix of all that, those things. I think when anybody curates art or literature or a bookseller hand sells a book or a parent walks to the shelf and knows their child and says, all right, we're gonna find that like unicorn that used to be a goat, right? That's what you're into both those things. There might be a hybrid in that, right? So we're always...

Kym Powe (14:57)

Itty-Bitty Kitty-Corn.

Ashley Sklar ((14:58)

Oh, we love the Itty-Bitty Kitty Corns. [crosstalk] Yup, thank you Kym.

Kirsten Cappy (15:02)

So great, right? There are some times when the reviews are really important, but you might need that goat who's also a unicorn, right? Like that may be what you really need at the moment. And we have been, at I'm your neighbor books, looking at watching this genre emerge. 

And I am not joking in saying since I started really collecting titles in 2012, representation of the immigrant new generation community has gone up 5,000 plus percent. Which is really astonishing, and we still don't have enough stories representing individual communities, right? [crosstalk]

On Friday, I was at an immigration conference and a educator who is herself Cabo Verde and is in, works with kids in those communities, I handed her the second picture book and it was set in New Bedford, Massachusetts her hometown. And she is a woman of 60 and she just opened up and the tears started flowing. She's like this is my community. This is my grandfather, not her actual grandfather, so part of it is we've been inserting books into the welcoming library collection that are the first of sometimes.

So books come in and out of the collection. And it is really important to us that they are well reviewed. But sometimes things come from Canada, they come from the UK. They're not always reviewed in the US and we always put them in the hands of, the most important piece is I always put those books in the hands of a community member, at least one community member whose experience is represented in that book and said does this feel, this is fiction, but does it feel true to you? Does feel in your heart like a piece of your experience?

Kym Powe (17:13)

Which I think is probably one of the most important parts, right, is hearing from someone who can understand the experience, because there's only so much any of us are gonna know about anything, right? Like, eventually you've gotta turn it over to an expert and say like, hey, does this feel right? Is this right? I only know, Google has only told me so much, and sometimes Google lies, as we know as librarians. 

Ashley Sklar (17:36)

And AI, AI lies.

Kym Powe (17:41)

Yeah, it all lies. So, I think that's absolutely amazing and the fact that you've curated a community around you so that you have someone to tap into to be kind of that like post publication beta reader, I guess is sort of a way to describe that.

Ashley Sklar (17:55)

Beta reader, that's a good term.

Kym Powe (17:57)

You've never heard that term? [crosstalk] Gosh, that's fine, I'll explain it later. So, it's fine. Gosh, my job is never done, I'm so tired. 

So, I wanna sort of hold on to, because I know that on the Welcoming Library website, it's not just picture books, right? But to talk about the picture books for a minute, I think that people who aren't immersed in the field of books, right? Be it professionally, I wanna say that because there are a lot with the awakening of like bookstagram and BookTok there are a lot of people who are very immersed in books. But I think until you reach a point where it's tied to your job in some way, shape or form, there might only be so much that a person can understand. 

So picture books are shockingly complicated, like shockingly complicated. On average, they're 32 pages, but then Patricia Palacco comes in and ruins all of that for us, who, whatever. But reading and evaluating a picture book, even for me, is sometimes a struggle, and I've been in youth libraries and in libraries for 17 years. 

Now, in the back of the Welcoming Library books are questions that have been created by a member of your organization. And the questions are to help the grownup who is a part of the reading process chat with the kiddo about what it was that they've read to help draw some of those parallels between different types of families. And I'm just wondering like, who does that on your team? Like how long does that take? Because I mean, it's hard. 

Picture books are deceptively simple, I think, to the average viewer. So to be able to curate well-thought-out, high-impact questions that are appropriate for a young, developing brain is like a task. And so I would love to hear whatever it is that you have to share about that.

Kirsten Cappy (20:07)

So I am guilty of being the one to create those questions. 

Kym Powe (20:13)

It's you!

Kirsten Cappy (20:14)

It's me. 

Kym Powe (20:15)

I didn't know. 

Kirsten Cappy (20:16)

Yeah, that's the big secret. [crosstalk] So I probably read the picture book 40 times. Really? And I also love to read picture books with completely ignoring the words because there's a visual literacy in every, there is a story going on in the pictures that may not be reflective in the words.

And I start drafting questions and then I reach out to the author and sometimes the author and illustrator, and put those questions in front of them and say what am I missing? What else could we be asking? What's your mission with the book? And then we take that a next step. And then I invite community members in again who have, and I hand them the book, I hand them the questions and we work them and rework them. 

And then a social emotional learning, Sarah Norsworthy, brilliant social emotional learning consultant, looks over them. I don't adhere to the parameters of social emotional learning, but I also want there to be some language there that teachers who do are connected with. 

And then there are things that tip in like, you have, I believe, Alma and how she got her name [crosstalk] in front of you. And this is this incredible story of breaking down how our names are connected to the deep history of our families in some cases. And the final question starts to address something that happens to children of color, kids of color, immigrant families all the time, especially to immigrant families where people who are curious about a child or a family will say, where are you from?

Ashley Sklar (22:35)

Right.

Kirsten Cappy (22:36)

And there that curiosity can be invasive and can be disruptive and also can cause a little deep pain because it can include the assumption that you actually don't look like you belong here. So I want to know where you're actually from. 

So we talk about why that question hurts. And ask, give people an alternative which says, you know, tell me the story of your name, right? And when you tell the story about how family named you or a stranger named you or you don't know, you start to, you automatically start to say things about family, about culture, about background.

And then I think at the end of the question, it says, let's try it now. Tell us the story of your name. So we're also using those questions to try and build bridges between communities where certain things make those bridges a little bumpier.

Ashley Sklar (23:56)

So this last question, I love that you called it the last question, because it's a nice chunky paragraph in this book that talks about that whole explains exactly what you just shared and lands and ends with that. What is the story of your name? 

And I realized that a number of years ago, I did a community leadership program. And I remember this was sort of one of the exercises. And I remember the question being asked and having to sort of like put down my own name and tell it to someone else in the group or share it with the larger room, I don't remember exactly. 

But I don't remember the explanation being as beautiful and eloquent as what you just shared that you captured here as like what, and I remember like for me feeling like the story of my name is really not interesting. It's not boring, but sure enough, it ended up doing exactly what you just described, right? I got to talk about my family. My name was then tied to sort of some of my siblings names and how that, and so it does yield all of this information that's so like personal and it's through that personal that you like then instantly form like a connection with someone as opposed to that original question of where are you from? That is, I don't want to, I mean, I'm going to say the word it's like divisive, right? It's like identifying the difference, right? [crosstalk] And telling, asking a question of what is the story of your name lets you like, oh, you have a family that does this and my family does that. And it's so much more of a connective question from the get go. 

So it was bringing me back to that exercise from years ago, but I feel like I just now am getting the sort of the power of what that that exercise did.

Kirsten Cappy (25:35)

And I have to give all credit to Dr. Krista Aronson who is a psychology professor at Bates College and the founder of the Diverse Book Finder and if you don't know that [crosstalk]

Ashley Sklar (25:49)

I work with her, of course I know.

Kym Powe (25:52)

I know all the things. I uploaded our picture book collection into Diverse Book Finder and was like, oh well, there's some work to be done. Thank you.

Kirsten Cappy (26:00)

Krista is a founding board member and now on our advisory council for I'm Your Neighbor Books. And we were planning our launch for I'm Your Neighbor Books. And she was like everybody's going to turn to each other and ask the story of their name. And I was like, oh yeah, and I'm going to NCTE with a bunch of brilliant writers and we're actually we're doing a full hour with teachers on the importance of names. 

Kym Powe (26:34)

Beautiful.

Kirsten Cappy (26:35)

And how to open those conversations, which I'm really excited. My name comes from my parents, hippies, atheists, turn to my immigrant Danish grandparents and said, will you pick out a name for her? And they named me Shearston, which is Kirsten in Danish and it was a long time before my parents found out that meant devoted Christian. [crosstalk] There went the atheism like, yep, sorry. Sorry.

Kym Powe (27:14)

Well, yeah, I wouldn't have known if you hadn't told me, but now that's a really, and as you guys have been having this conversation, I've been sitting here thinking about names and there's always something to be said with my name in particular, and I've never sort of thought about it as sort of like, I guess like the history of my name, because I tend to be very like grounded and stuck in the present just with explaining that I'm not pronouncing it wrong.

So with a last name like Powe one syllable, four letters, but it's the four letters that are the problem. People expect, thank you Edgar Allen for ruining the rest of my life. People expect Powe, I'm sure you were very kind. People expect Powe to be spelled P-O-E or P-O but I've got a W in there and so I've had people pronounce my name Powers like I left some letters out or Powell like I left some different letters out.

And then the most common of them all, pow, and I remember going home and being really upset because kids, when I was younger, kids tried to tell me that I was mispronouncing my name, and that's why, this may have been my journey into librarianhood, when an E is at the end of a word, the vowel directly before it says its name, like, and so that's what I, [crosstalk] what I started to say, and that gets you the pronunciation of Powe, even though there's a W there, and then one that was given to me and all of this is my dad. 

I gotta mention my mom in this podcast. She was upset when I said that I hadn't mentioned her yet. 

He said, goes, ask someone how to spell Lowe's, like the hardware store. And it's L-O-W-E with an S. And I was in class with a girl named Brittany Lowe, L-O-W-E. And nobody had a problem with that, but Poe couldn't possibly be P-O-W-E. So that's always sort of been at the forefront of my name thoughts because it's just been this like really unnecessary small battle for my whole life of like explaining it and defending the pronunciation of it. 

But then sort of leaving that alone, right? And thinking about the story of my name and who gave it to me. My mom, my mom gave me, thank you so much mom for giving me my name. I had to say it a couple times. And it's spelled so uniquely with a Y and two E's, K-Y-M-B-E-R-L-E-E, which also takes such a long time to spell my name out to people. She said she wanted me to have a name that was sort of common and simple. But she wanted it to have a little bit of flair and to have like an interesting spelling because she's got a name that is unique to say the least. And so she didn't want me to have to sort of deal with that, but still wanted there to be something unique about it. And so she chose the spelling.

My brain never really gets the space to think about it that way because I'm like, it's Powe, it's Powe, I tell you. And so to have the space to think about, I'm telling you guys, [crosstalk] man, over 30 years it is. But so to have the freedom and sort of be invited through this final question in Alma to think about my name in a different way is so beautiful and.

Thank you, I don't remember when the last time I looked at the questions in the back of the books from the welcoming library was. [crosstalk] So this is a nice little, you know.

Kirsten Cappy (30:51)

And one of the things that we, it’s been a joy to watch the database evolve and evolve and evolve, and one of the sweet things that I will say here for the first time is diverse book finder and I'm your neighbor books are starting to merge efforts [crosstalk] on thinking about how we tag identity. And one of the things that you can find, for example, is there is a theme on the I'm Your Neighbor Books, I'm Your Neighbor Books dot org site, which is identity around names and pronunciations. Because for the immigrant new generation community, they have had, so many have the experience of having their name shortened, [crosstalk] rearranged, mispronounced. 

And I really recommend a beautiful YA novel, which is prose poetry called Warrior Girl, [crosstalk] which is centered on so many things, including her father's being taken by ICE and deported and how that changes her world, and how she needs so much new safety around her heart and one of those is finally standing up for how her name is said and expressed.

Kym Powe (32:21)

Yes, yes, absolutely. And I mispronounced your name just today. So, you know, a reminder to, you know, ask, double check, and, you know, give it all you got.

Kirsten Cappy (32:35)

I am, the other piece that I, the questions have evolved also, right? And the other piece that I would say is, when we're reading aloud to an adult or a child outside of our cultural experiences, we can have some anxiety about getting things wrong, pronouncing things wrong, being asked a question about something that's in the book that you are not prepared to ask. 

And we have a book in the collection by Emma Yuccel called In My Mosque and we wanted to ask a question about the hijab. And the question we asked was, is there something someone in your family wears, or that says something about where they're from, what they believe in, what they care about, right? So we're trying to say, you know, all put things on our bodies. Jewelry, clothing, tattoos, that says who we are, where we come from, emotionally or literally, right?  

But what a teacher fears, potentially, and I know teachers have said, this is what I fear, is some child in their classroom raising their hand and go, what's a hijab?

And that is such a complex question even for women that wear the hijab. So we worked with seven women, seven hijabi women from across culture cultures to compose, and it was one of those questions that became like several paragraphs long, composed a description of the hijab that they all felt comfortable with.

Kym Powe (34:35)

That’s beautiful.

Ashley Sklar (34:36)

Gorgeous.

Kym Powe (34:37)

We have that book. I don't know. I was looking, I was like, is that? [crosstalk]

Ashley Sklar (34:40)

I don't think it's on the table. 

Kirsten Cappy (34:42)

It's not on the table. 

Ashley Sklar (34:43)

I don't think it's on the table. 

Kym Powe (34:43)

That means it's in a kit checked out in an institution [crosstalk] and I love that for us. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Sklar (34:49)

I just, my daughter and I read last night, the proudest blue. And I.

Kym Powe (34:55)

Did you get that from me too?

Ashley Sklar (34:56)

Of course, I did.

One of the joys of working here is that I just go down the new books or new displays and I'm like, okay, Kym picked these all out, in my bag they go and I check them out. 

But so we were reading The Proudest Blue, which has been on my list for a long time and I finally was like, I'm gonna borrow it. But I looked up how to say the two sisters' names as we were reading, because I was like trying to and I was like, Cy, I don't know how to say these names. And so we sat there [crosstalk] and I looked them both up and then, one of them, for whatever reason, her little memories got more elasticity these days than mine. And I kept checking with her every time I got to the name because she was remembering the correct pronunciation better than I and it finally clicked. It took me like 10 times. It took her once. But I was like so glad that I paused to do that with that book and will do so. 

I remember a conversation Kym we were having about how if there, especially if it's a book with names or words that you don't know, aren't right, aren't native that you choose to read the audio book. 

Kym Powe (35:55)

I sure do.

Ashley Sklar (35:56)

And which is so wise, but I was like, it's a picture book. I can't do that. 

Kym Powe (36:00)

Sometimes you can.

Ashley Sklar (36:00)

So I'm going to. That's true.

Kym Powe (36:01)

Sometimes you can. It is very different. [crosstalk] But yeah, when I'm reading a book, like, and I think the first time that I did it was when I was reading Esperanza Rising. And I just so happened to just like pick that as my audio book. At one point I had like an hour commute both ways for work and I just picked that. 

And hearing the audio book reader, just the way and just not even just the pronunciation, but the way that it was sort of embedded into a sentence, right? So when something was, you know, when something exasperating was happening or when something exciting was happening, so it's not just the phonetic pronunciation of the word, [crosstalk] but how it's embedded in the sentence structure, depending on what's happening. 

And I have found that when I know that a book is taking place in another country or suspect that there might be words in a language other than the one that I speak embedded throughout the book, I'm gonna look for the audio book every time because it just, it really changes the way that it hits because what I'm saying in my mind, A, isn't right. 

And B, because I'm trying to say the word in my mind, it's interrupting the flow of the sentence and the structure. And potentially whether you realize it or not, pulling you out of the book a little bit. And to be able to listen to someone who's native or fluent in that language just really adds to the experience, the overall experience of the story.

Kirsten Cappy (37:37)

And one of the things we've been really lucky, Portland and Maine can be a total magical place. There happens to be, there's one magazine about audio books, which is called Audio File Magazine, which is in Portland, Maine. They obviously believe in the power of audio. We donate every year to make sure that we can put Wonder Book editions into welcoming libraries. [crosstalk]

Kym Powe (38:02)

Yeah, love a Wonder Book.

Kirsten Cappy (38:05)

Has the audio player, right? So we've used Alma, we've used Dreamers, [crosstalk], you've got them in your collection.

Kym Powe (38:12)

We sure do, we sure do, we got them. I love being able to say that. 

Yeah, so that's what I meant when I said sometimes you in fact can hear the picture book. But so in addition to picture books and to books for other ages that are in the collection, you guys have begun to make StoryWalks available.

So for anyone who does not know what a StoryWalk is, it is my favorite thing in the entire world, even though it can sound a little scary to say. So I'm sorry. You got to rip the book apart. You've got to rip the book.

Ashley Sklar (38:41)

That’s the scary part. I was like, “what’s scary?” That’s it.

Kym Powe (38:42)

It’s still the book. It's still there, but a book is sort of, let's say, deconstructed and placed along a path. So it might be a paved path in your local town green. It might be a path in a state park or a state forest. So the Connecticut State Library has partnered with the Department of Energy and Environmental Protection State Parks, and we've built four permanent StoryWalks throughout the state of Connecticut.

So some of them are kind of in wooded areas. Other places are paved and more physically accessible. But essentially the story is spread out. So you read a page, maybe have a conversation, do a little walk, walk, walk. Maybe you can see the next page with your eyes. It's that close. Maybe you can't. So it really is like a journey and maybe you've walked like a mile by the time you finish the story. So that's a StoryWalk.

And you all at I'm Your Neighbor Books have been able to do some negotiating with publishers. So us, you know, unless we reach out to publishers, we can't copy the book. It's a copyright violation. I took a whole class on copyright. So we can't copy the books or blow them up unless we go through the steps to get publisher permission. 

So the work around for that typically is to buy two copies of the book and pull them apart. Therefore you haven't manipulated anything or broken any copyright violations. 

But you all have been doing some work to make certain StoryWalks available on demand. So we have one, Snow in the Jungle here that has the book, also some, I assume you did those too, the questions [crosstalk] on the bottom of each page for Snow in the Jungle. But it seems like you're beginning to make more of those available to people. So like why StoryWalks? Why was that the, is it because you love them as much as me?

Kirsten Cappy (40:33)

I do, I do love them. You know, secretly, Portland, Maine was the second place to have them implemented. Somebody from Portland, Maine was on a winter walk in Vermont, and saw the very first one.

Kym Powe (40:54)

Yes, it's where they originated. [crosstalk]

Kirsten Cappy (40:57)

And came back and said, they worked at Maine Health, the big healthcare system in the state. And they said, and there was just, and this was sort of the start of StoryWalk. The Obama administration had formed an anti-obesity – it could have been named something way better than that. [crosstalk]

Kym Powe (41:21)

That was, the first lady was doing a lot of that like get out and move stuff [crosstalk]

Kirsten Cappy (41:28)

So we, as a city used that Obama money to put StoryWalk trails in our communities. So we, I can't say that we were the first, but we were like a direct we were one, one removed from from the Kellogg Public Library in Vermont doing that project. And so I really love them. I really believe them. 

And both StoryWalks we done have been from Child's Play International, which is actually a UK publisher who is like, rights? Why do we have to deal with copyright? [crosstalk] Like, we're to put our story into hundreds of communities, and which meets our mission, but also could potentially lead to sales? Why would we like keep you from doing that? 

Ashley Sklar (42:17)

Go forth. Go forth.

Kirsten Cappy (42:19)

The newest one, and I'm really excited about is a book that has journeys. It's a Congolese family who are forced to leave their home, and they use wheelbarrows and trucks and all sorts of means to get to safety. And then they are put on an airplane and they come to the northern United States and have to use buses and cars and then they get introduced to snow plows in a really pivotal scene. 

So it is a book about movement. It's a book about going away and coming back home [crosstalk] and it was produced in the community with seventeen different African immigrant community members from Congo, DRC, Angola, Burundi, Uganda, 

And so at that StoryWalk, you're going to be able to scan the language you prefer. [crosstalk] And you can listen to each sign [crosstalk] in the language that you prefer.

Kym Powe (43:32)

And you know, Matt, that makes me think about this conversation that we have. We must have this conversation like every eight or nine months. 

So, you know, as anyone who's listening knows, because we've said it a million times, but for you, Kirsten, Matt is the director of the Connecticut Library for Accessible Books, which primarily serves people who struggle to read because of a visual disability, a physical disability or a learning disability and has this cool machine that actually prints braille out and you can like stick it to stuff. That's not the smartest way to say that. Go ahead, Matt, say it, say it. [crosstalk]

Ashley Sklar (44:06)

Make it pretty.

Matt Geeza (44:06)

I knew what you were talking about, yeah.

Kym Powe (44:08)

Well and I had a gesture of like, you know, you slap it on something. But it's this cool machine and we've got to use that thing more. I mean, I'm sure you use it. I'm saying [crosstalk] like I would like it to be attached to something that I'm doing because I think it's so cool.

Ashley Sklar (44:25)

A braille StoryWalk. This is where the StoryWalk…

Kym Powe (44:26)

Well we've talked about that, [crosstalk] but because there multiple languages, so because you all have done the work already of, you know, the ability for someone to listen to and it's the individual pages, right? [crosstalk] So you listen to the page and then you go to the next page and then you scan the QR code. So even, you know, if we're not able to translate, especially if there's other languages, you know, or words in other languages, I don't know how that would work with Braille, but maybe even something sort of like scan code, you know, sort of that portion in Braille of scan QR code for audio of page or something. But I mean, that's a thing. My words are not words-ing. Is that right? 

Matt Geeza (45:10)

Yeah, I think there's a lot of options or different approaches that could be taken. 

But yeah, I mean, what you were describing initially is that we have a Braille embosser here at our site [crosstalk] which is the equivalent of a printer but the embosser creates the braille dots on a page. And one of the products that we have are these clear adhesive sheets that are called embossables. So we can emboss them and then you can cut, your page, your embossable to size and then affix it to whatever you need to, so it's a way of doing braille labeling. 

But I think that's kind of what you were [crosstalk] driving at with your idea there where that could be perhaps a part of the StoryWalk or at least a way of providing instructions directing people to the presence of QR codes and what to do with the QR codes and what might be available. 

Kym Powe (46:04)

Yeah, yeah. So mean, making something just sort of even more accessible, right? So and I think that's always the goal, right? How can we reach and impact as many people as possible in the work that we do? 

It’s just, you know, we're so lucky here at the State Library to have some resources, right? Like the Braille embosser. Even having, you know, just right here in the building that we work in, our library for accessible books is here. It's not somewhere else. And, you know, I wander back all the time and I say, hey, CT LAB how's it going? Right? Because that's sort of where everybody is. And we're able to just sort of in passing have an idea and, you know, figure out how to move on that idea as we do 18,000 other things. 

Ashley Sklar (46:50)

It's true.

Kym Powe (46:52)

18,000, that's the average number.

Kirsten Cappy (46:54)

I think that's the [crosstalk] official list of what I have on my to do list. Yeah, it's 18. Yeah, just just clear on that number.

Kym Powe (46:57)

Right? Our supervisor said to me, she's like, I don't even make to-do lists anymore. [crosstalk] Like they just make you sad. And you know, I might take a page out of her book at some point.

I'm gonna say I have a favorite book in, that's on I'm Your Neighbor Books and that happens to be in our welcoming library kit. And I think it's my favorite book because you told me about, you said read this, this is the best book and then I did and now I proceed to tell every human I encounter about this book. 

My favorite book from our kit is The Suitcase.

Ashley Sklar (47:34)

I knew she was going to say that.

Kym Powe (47:34)

Well of course because you’re one of the humans.

Ashley Sklar (47:35)

Because then she told me and then I bought it. 

Kym Powe (47:37)

Yeah. So.

Ashley Sklar (47:38)

I didn't even borrow it. I, I had to buy that one.

Kym Powe (47:39)

Yeah, sometimes we don't even borrow, we buy. 

And I mean, that is my favorite book. Ultimately, it's, man, how do you even describe a book like this? [crosstalk] A character, and they're all animals in this one, who has a suitcase and says that there's all these grand things in this suitcase, right? [crosstalk] Like, family's in this suitcase, and a cabin's in this suitcase, [crosstalk] and all these things are in this suitcase, but it is like suitcase proportional size to animal in book. So it's not like it's a dinosaur's eye. It is proportional to our little dude. 

And the people that our little dude has told, you know, all these things that are in the suitcase, they don't believe, they're like, no, it's not big enough for there to be a whole cabin in there. What are you talking about? And they make a decision based off of what they believe to be true. The decision that they make will make you sad. [crosstalk]

And then we go on, we learn, because it's a picture book and we, I need that thirty-second page to be full of joy. It all kind of works out, right? So learning is done, forgiveness is granted, people sort of learn.

Ashley Sklar (48:52)

Growth, right? There’s growth. [crosstalk]

Kym Powe (48:54)

There you go. [crosstalk] There is growth in the book. And we sort of learn how people connect to items and their past. And it is absolutely beautiful. So I wanna know just sort of, of the books that you work with, is there one that's your favorite, which is the hardest question to ask a book reader, but I'm sorry, I'm asking it anyway.

Kirsten Cappy (49:13)

Well, of course, The Suitcase, right? [crosstalk] Always, The Suitcase because I think our mission is really mixed in there, right? Like that it is perfectly natural for human beings to look at each other and say I don’t know you. I don't know if I trust you, I don't know if I believe you, I don't know if we're gonna be able to communicate, I don't know if we have any common. Like our brains automatically sort humans around us, right? It's just a given. 

And so that is a book about distrust. And what transforms that distrust is story. Because once that suitcase is open, there are objects and photographs that not only validate his story, he didn't need his story validated, he needed to be trusted. But any, put that aside. [crosstalk] 

They look into that suitcase and see his whole beautiful self, home, surrounded by friends. I just, I've probably read it 50 times, to people, to myself, and I just realized there's a, there is a photograph of him in his original home. [crosstalk] And somebody took that photograph, right? 

Kym Powe (50:40)

Yes!

Kirsten Cappy (50:41)

And you can actually see the little shadow of the person that took that photograph, [crosstalk] which I'd never seen. And it's like, he had family and friends. And yes, he's tired. And he doesn't look like someone you want to be friends with, but he is, and that all happens with those objects. 

So for me, that encapsulates what we're trying to do with cross group communications, building cultural competency, knowing about each other, knowing more about ourselves is, we do that through story.

Ashley Sklar (51:20)

I just, this is like hearkening back to the question that we were talking about earlier from Alma, right? Like rather than, and I don't know if the animals in The Suitcase ask like, where is he from? But I feel like that's one of, I can visualize that being one of their questions, like, you know, where is he from? And, you know, they're kind of identifying all the differences, right, but right, the end, right, what's in the suitcase gets to that last part instead of what is the story of your name, but it gets, these are the symbols that let them into the story. 

Kym Powe (51:53)

Maybe like what is your story?

Ashley Sklar (51:55)

Yeah, just what is your story? [crosstalk] Right. And those objects in this case let you get there. But yeah.

Kirsten Cappy (52:03)

And I think for me, currently the book that just blows me away is by Leonarda Carranza who has written a book called Abuelita and Me and it's translated into Spanish Abuelita y yo. She's a Salvadoran woman living in Canada. And it is about the amazing, joyful, loving relationship between a girl and her Abuelita.

The book starts inside when they are alone together and they're superheroes and coloring and food and joy. And then they have to go to the grocery store. And that process of going outside, you start, the girl starts to feel the assumptions that are being made about her Abuelita because of her Abuelita's appearance, because of race, because of language, because of accent, and I hate the word accent, it's just cadence. Accent just means Abuelita has many languages [crosstalk] in her, in her mouth and in her head. 

Ashley Sklar (53:11)

How lucky.

Kirsten Cappy (53:12)

How lucky for all of them, right? And that assumption hits this really critical and harmful point in the book where someone says something to Abuelita, which makes the worst assumption about her and it is, it is a point of heartbreak. It is an act of racism. And the book is about how you come back to yourself after something like that happens. 

So like, it is not just, we are not just trying to build bridges between people with these books but we’re trying to also show a book, like Abuelita and Me shows what harm is done when we do not collectively do that work.

Kym Powe (54:04)

Man, there's just so much. There's so much to be said, there's so much to offer, there's so much to learn. Even when you were talking about accents, I was like, hello, there are accents in this country. When I lived in Ohio, the way someone said manatee just randomly, I was like, huh?

That's just, you know, that that's a natural part of life. That's a natural part of humanhood and personhood. So I think there's always something to learn. There's always some way to grow. And I think. You know, we're talking about story and picture books, but that's what we're doing here, right? We're talking and we're telling stories and we're sharing and we're all learning just sitting at this table. 

Embosser, embosser. 

Ashley Sklar (54:50)

Kym learned.

Kym Powe (54:51)

I learned.

Kirsten Cappy (54:52)

The boss of the embosser is sitting right next to her.

Kym Powe (54:55)

Sure is, sure is, and it's not me. But thank you so much for, I mean, you sent an email saying, hey, can I pop in and talk about the Welcoming Library? And I said, you sure can. And would you also sit at this table in front of these microphones that we bought that one time and join us on our still new podcast. And I just want to thank you for the time that you've given us today.

Kirsten Cappy (55:19)

I always love to talk to y’all and do so into this funny little metal thing. [crosstalk] It just makes it all the more special because we get to talk in a larger context.

Kym Powe (55:31)

Absolutely. I'm sure someone's regretting the fact that I'm sitting in front of this microphone, but oh well.

Kirsten Cappy (55:36)

But that person would not be me.

Kym Powe (55:39)

Nope. [crosstalk] So I just want to thank you again for joining us on our podcast, Under the Charter Oak, a podcast of the Connecticut State Library, where we preserve the past to inform the future.