Books for you, Connecticut!

We have our first guest! Brad Bullis, the CT State Library Digital Content and Innovation Coordinator joins Ashley, Kym, and Matt as we jump out from behind the curtain and take center stage! Much of how the Division of Library Development contributes to the state is hidden and often unknown, but today we discuss our public facing programs designed with Connecticut residents in mind!

Today's Guest Host

Brad Bullis is the Digital Content and Innovation Coordinator at the Connecticut State Library. He oversees eGO CT, researchIT CT, and other programs. Brad also served in the Connecticut Air National Guard for 34 years.

What we’re reading

• The Last Chairlift by John Irving
• Twice by Mitch Albom
• The Country of the Blind: A Memoir at the End of Sight by Andrew Leland
• Fall of the Fireflies by Guadalupe García McCall
• The Covenant of Water by Abraham Verghese

State resources we mentioned:

• The Palace Project App
• Get a Virtual Library Card
• CT Library for Accessible Books (CTLAB)
• All CT Reads

All CT Reads 2026 titles!

Adult

Primary

• The Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong

Secondary

• The Collected Regrets of Clover by Mikki Brammer
• There are Rivers in the Sky by Elif Shafak
• Help Wanted by Adelle Waldman

Teen

Primary

• Looking for Smoke by K.A. Cobell

Secondary

• In Limbo by Deb JJ Lee
• Ruin Road by Lamar Giles
• The Summer I Remembered Everything by Catherine Con Morse

Kids

Primary

• Mid-Air by Alicia D. Williams

Secondary

• The Flicker by H.E. Edgmon
• Swim Team by Johnnie Christmas
• Oasis by Guojing

Credit:

“Wholesome”

Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/be/3.0/

The Connecticut State Library. Preserving the Past to Inform the Future!

Transcript

Kym Powe (00:05)

Welcome to Under the Charter Oak, a podcast of the Connecticut State Library where we preserve the past to inform the future. My name is Kym Powe. I am the children and young adult consultant.

Ashley Sklar (00:21)
And I'm Ashley Sklar, the Adult Services and Community Engagement Consultant.

Matt Geeza (00:25)
And I'm Matt Geeza the director of the Middletown Library Service Center and the Connecticut Library for Accessible Books.

Brad Bullis (00:32)
And I am Brad Bullis. I'm the Digital Content and Innovation Coordinator here at the Division of Library Development.

Kym Powe (00:37)
I'm so excited! have Brad! this is the best day in the world. Okay, so, Brad, thank you for joining us on the pod. We are gonna start off by saying what we're reading. Brad, as our guest, feel free to go first. Tell us what you're reading right now.

Brad Bullis (00:51)
I'm actually reading two books. I'm reading one print book and one book on Palace. So the first book I'm reading is The Last Chairlift by John Irving and the second is by Mitch Albom and it's twice and both books are wonderful.

Kym Powe (01:06)
Awesome, awesome. Matt, what about you? What are you reading?

Matt Geeza (01:09)
I am reading a book called The Country of the Blind, a memoir at the end of sight by Andrew Leland. I've heard it described as part memoir, part historical, part cultural investigation. And I think that's a good description of it. Andrew Leland is someone who is, think at this point in his mid forties and he has retinitis pigmentosa, which is an eye condition that he was diagnosed, I think, earlier on in life, had sight, but then in his teenage years began to lose some sight. And for him, what that means is that his vision is kind of shrinking from outside in. So he really is at this point, the way he describes it, looks through a very small circle straight ahead, almost like looking through like a paper towel tube or something like that is how I think I've heard him describe it. 

So this is kind of an investigation of him exploring what it means to lose your sight gradually and become blind. as I said, it's also this historical sort of examination of blindness, both from a medical perspective, but also from a cultural perspective as well. 

So it's excellent and I was lucky enough to hear him speak recently.

Kym Powe (02:31)
wow.

Matt Geeza (02:32)
How about you, Kym or Ashley?

Kym Powe (02:35)
Me? You? Me? Sure, it can be me. Gosh, so I'm reading Fall of the Fireflies by Guadalupe Garcia-McCall, and I don't know what it's about. I don't know. And so the thing is, this is the beginning of a trilogy or a series that's ultimately called Fall of the Fireflies, I believe.  But the thing is, I think it's somewhat attached to another book that this author has written because they're already talking about, there's like magical elements to it, I believe like cultural elements to it. And they're like, yeah, when we cross the river to do something. And so I'm like, what? And when we, monsters that we know exist, and I'm like, what? So I know that this is the first book of a series, but I think these characters existed in another book series that I have not read. I'm not lost like that, I'm missing details.

Matt Geeza (03:39)
No!

Kym Powe (03:42)
No, no. But it's cool, the main characters are twins. And at this point in the book, they're beginning to grow apart. So whereas one is sort of more adventurous and ready and willing to do anything and everything, the other twin is sort of, and I believe it's because of what happened in this other book that I haven't read, is becoming a bit more reserved, a bit more, I think, cautious, hyper involved in like research whereas the other twin is like, let's just go do the thing. Let's start a YouTube channel. And so watching their dynamic kind of adjust and change, even though I wasn't there to see it when maybe they were a bit more succinct, you can feel it just through like the writing of the book and the characterization. So I'm having a great time. I'm gonna go back and figure out what I don't know later.

It's definitely still readable even though, you know, if you haven't read the other book, but there's definitely some stuff that I don't know. So it's kind of a fun journey.

Ashley Sklar (04:40)
So you'll remember last time I told you I was reading an 800 page book. So guess what, guys? I'm still reading that 800 page book. It's excellent. So this is The Covenant of Water by Abraham Verghese I am deeper into the book now. I think I was like only in the first or second chapter when I was here last. So I am now in sort of the second section, and this is a book that takes place over a generation. So I'm in the next sort of chunk of the story.

I think there's multiple of these to come before they, I'm assuming, all wrap up in the end, but it continues to be enticing and engaging. So stay tuned.

Kym Powe (05:18)
And long. It continues to be long.

Brad Bullis (05:21)
I would say the last chairlift that I'm reading is it's about 900 pages. It feels like I've been reading it forever and I love the book, but it feels like this should be done by now. I should have finished this already.

Kym Powe (05:25)
No! Okay, see?

Ashley Sklar (05:34)
Yeah, I mean, I hear you, but I'm guessing you will still finish before me because I read so slowly because mostly I read picture books. As I should, and they are. But yeah, this is I feel like it's going to be like months, so I'm going to just apologize now if the next time I'm reading the same book.

Kym Powe (05:53)
There is a book I'm gonna start and the audiobook is over 10 hours. I'm just like. All right. I'm getting there. Thank you Kym.

Ashley Sklar (05:57)
Makes me feel better.

Matt Geeza (06:01)
Brad, I was surprised. I was kind of expecting a music biography from you. That's something we often talk about around the office.

Brad Bullis (06:07)
I do read lot of music biographies and I am currently looking at reading either Born to Run or Jungle Land, which are two books about Bruce Springsteen. The first one is an autobiography, think, or actually, yeah, the first one is.

Ashley Sklar (06:22)
I think I bought that for my husband, that one. He's a big Bruce Springsteen fan.

Brad Bullis (06:27)
Yeah, well, I only got through basically Born in the USA and then I sort of lost touch with with Bruce Springsteen or Nebraska maybe. So it's, you know, one of those things a lot of bands, it's like the first five albums are critical. then after that, go, OK.

Kym Powe (06:43)
That's fun. All right, so our last two episodes, you we've talked a lot about public libraries and we've sprinkled in some information about what we do here at the state and we've sprinkled information in about how we didn't plan to apply to work up here.

And fun fact, Ashley followed Brad, which I don't think you brought up when we talked about that. yeah, we talked about sort of our job trajectory and how we got here. Brad, you were here before Ashley. So sort of before we dive into a little bit of us talking about public facing services of the State Library, I want to hear Brad's life journey because you, Ashley, you just told me something about that Brad used to do. And I said, no, he didn't. But I don't even remember what it was.

So we'll see if you bring it. I was like, I don't remember that ever coming up. Maybe you will. So Brad, give us, how did you get here? Like into libraries and into the state library? Did you apply on purpose wanting a job or like the rest of us? Like, I guess I want to know.

Brad Bullis (07:51)
Well, I can give you the long story. So I first started out working building exhibits for trade shows. Then I was a land surveyor.

Kym Powe (07:58)
That was it! That was it! And I was like, did that?

Brad Bullis (08:01)
That was a great job. It was one of those jobs where you got to work outside and then you collected data outside with your equipment and then brought it in and then you would draw maps and share that information with clients. So it had the whole gamut and it was a really wonderful job. What happened was the economy went bad so I had to look for a new career. And a good friend of mine was in the library science field, had worked at New Haven Free Public Library and then was working at Travelers at the library there. And so she recommended that I go to library school because she knew I loved reading, I loved libraries, I loved public service. So it got me into libraries. So I worked at Yale University for a few years. And then I worked at New Haven Free Public Library for over 20 years. And it was time to make a change and a job appeared here at the State Library. And I looked into it and thought, boy, that would be a great place to work. So I definitely intended to work here.

It was definitely something that I loved the opportunity to be able to do. And now I get to work with a different community instead of dealing with the public directly, we deal with libraries and we get to serve libraries and librarians. So it's been a great transition and yes, I definitely intended to be here.

Kym Powe (09:17)
Well, it had to be somebody. Somebody had to be here on purpose. That's awesome. Yeah, she sure did. Ashley was like, Brad used to be a land surveyor. I no, he wasn't.

Ashley Sklar (09:19)
Somebody surveyors were in my neighborhood the other day and I said to Kym, was like, Brad did that? I said, Brad used to be a land surveyor. He told great stories about it.

Kym Powe (09:36)
That's awesome. But you are right, Brad. So here we do primarily serve, I like to say institutions, right? So be it public libraries or academics, or we even recently worked with like a board of Ed in a town. So we kind of work with like the big kahunas who then in turn like go and work with the public. But we do have some public facing programs where we work directly on behalf of Joe Connecticut. And some of those programs are yours. And one of them is my mom's absolute favorite, as I mentioned, she says hi. And I've got a book keyed up in Palace now. Can you tell us a little bit about the Palace app which came out of the eGo program?

Brad Bullis (10:26)
Sure, and definitely say hello to your mom for me. And so the eGO program is our ebook program. It's run out of the Division of Library Development. And so that's the program itself. And then the platform is the Palace app. And so that's the mechanism in which you can access ebooks and eaudiobooks. It's been going on since, let's see, I think I started working here in 2019. We officially launched the program for public libraries in 2020. And we started out with the Simply E app and the same code is actually used for the Palace app but it's much more developed now. So you utilize the Palace app and to access books both from your collection and from the Connecticut State Library's collection.

Kym Powe (11:11)
That's my favorite. You essentially get two collections in one, right? So if I live in, you know, Town X in Connecticut, I get Town X's collection, I get the State Library's collection, it's all in one app. So I think that's awesome. And until you said Simply E, I forgot all about Simply E. What a time that was. We've gone through a whole lot of things here. So with regards to that app, like who specifically can use it? Is it literally anyone in the state of Connecticut? Sort of like break that down, because again, normally we talk about serving institutions and this specifically serves individual people.

Brad Bullis (11:49)
It does. We work through the public libraries, any citizen of the state of Connecticut, any resident can access the Palace app and access the ebook collection that we provide. You can either use your public library card, which is probably the best way because I always recommend that you utilize the resources that are delivered through your public library because they're plentiful and they're bought for you to utilize. But the Palace app you can also access with a virtual library card. And what you do to access the Palace app that way is you select the Connecticut State Library as your home library and then you create a card. It's done with an email address. They send you back a 14-digit number that you utilize. You create a little password. You log in once, and you're basically good to go.

Kym Powe (12:38)
I love that. I've got both because, know, why not both as they say? Guys, am I the only one here with an Android phone? I am. I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed. We're recruiting. We're recruiting people and it's used worldwide. But so this is for both, right? Because as the lone Android user, sometimes like a really cool new app comes out and it's just for iOS for, you know, I think there's still an app that I'm waiting for that for my tablet and I just I think there's a waiting list like you can sign up so that like when the email blast goes out of like now it's for the rest of earth You know, you can have it too is but this out of the gate, right? Like I imagine you guys work to make sure that this was available to anyone any kind of phone Google Google phones are their Google phones?

Matt Geeza (13:32)
They use the Android.

Kym Powe (13:34)
Oh, they do? Oh, I know. But so, just anyone, it doesn't matter what kind of device you have, phone, tablet, right? Like it all works if it connects to the internet.

Brad Bullis (13:43)
That's right, it's iOS, so that's your Apple phones, and then it's Androids, so your Samsungs and so on. You can access the app that way. And I do recommend, if you can, I have a tablet, so I have an iPad, so I utilize the app there, and then I use my iPhone for when I'm driving in the car to work, because whenever I'm driving to work, I'm listening to an e-audiobook, and there's so many e-audiobooks to take advantage of there. So I definitely, you can access with those two types of devices. But if you can get a tablet, it's a lot easier to read a book on a tablet than it is a smartphone.

Ashley Sklar (14:21)
It's funny you say that I strictly use the Palace app for audiobooks because I don't love reading on the phone, but it is for exactly the same reason I listen to it in the car or on the go and it's perfect for that.

Kym Powe (14:36)
And there are a lot of glasses wearers in this room right now. So goodness, help us. So there are how many books? I was going to throw out some random number to say there are 25,000 books in Palace. But I figured instead of making up some number that you must correct, even though I just did that, how many how many approximately books are in this collection? Right. And then using the Palace app, that's still going to be like half of the collection because then you still have your home library.

Brad Bullis (15:05)
That's right. So you have 50,000 plus items that are made available in the Palace app through the Connecticut State Library. 30,000 of those approximately are open access titles, which are great because you can check those out and you never have to return them. You basically have them for in perpetuity as long as you want. And they're great for classics, older titles. If your book group is reading one of the great classics and it's in the public domain.

You can all check it out, you can all access it, so it's great in that way. But we also have the Connecticut State Library collection, and that's over 20,000 items. About 8,200 of those are e-audiobooks. We still have more e-books than e-audio, even though e-audio does get utilized more, but that's just because of the nature of the way the collection gets built. Some titles that are available as e-books aren't always available as e-audio, so that is a limitation.

But yeah, so we have quite an extensive collection and of course that collection does include, through your public library, what they have either through their consortium or through their local holdings.

Kym Powe (16:15)
So I think when most people think about their local public library and digital content, they think about Libby, right? Or Hoopla. Guys, it's almost November 1st. According to Mariah Carey, that is when Christmas starts. And we all know what I'll be doing on Hoopla once it's officially time. That's Saturday.

Ashley Sklar (16:39)
Saturday. Episode one? Daylight savings too, so you like have an extra hour.

Kym Powe (16:44)
Oh man, that means I'm gonna be tired. Yes, so Brad, I don't know if you, oh no, you listened to our episode when I found out that you could watch the Hallmark channel on Hoopla so I can watch however many days of Christmas exist in there in seven day increments. Oh man, I forgot all about that. I'm so excited. So when people think about their public libraries, they'll think about Libby or our holder of Hallmark.

But this is not Libby. This is something that's a little bit different. So what are the biggest differences that you can tell us about Libby and Palace, even though we do know that if someone goes through the Palace app, they will be able to access Libby Holdings. Is that right? Like from their local public library?

Brad Bullis (17:30)
That is correct. You know, the big difference is one thing I want to say before I even go into the differences is we're not trying to compete with Libby. No. They are sort of a program that or an app that is, you know, co-located with with Palace. we're definitely not trying to compete at all.

The nice thing about Libby is that it does include magazine holdings. It's a great resource, it's a very slick app. Everything about it, I think, is quite wonderful. The nice thing about the Palace app, as we've said, is that it just puts multiple streams of content into one place. And I think that's the piece that we really like and enjoy. And it really makes your collection go from being 50,000 from the State Library to maybe up to like 100,000 titles that you have access to, which is...You think about a public library that has 100,000 books in its collection, that's a big library. And then all of sudden the reach that you have, because you can connect with every citizen here in Connecticut, it's pretty amazing that you can connect that way. So both Libby and Palace are great, but they are not ⁓ at odds with each other. They complement each other.

Kym Powe (18:35)
Yep, I've got a folder on my phone just called Books. And it's got Palace, it's got Libby, it's got Hoopla, it's got something else. I don't remember. the Kindle app. I mean, it's all in there. And so when I think about all of these like book apps. you have BARD. I don't even have BARD And we're going to get to BARD.

So this is available to the entire state of Connecticut, but in the grand scheme of things, it is newer, right? So when we're thinking about apps and sort of things that are around this project started in 2020, the use of the Palace app
is also newer. So about how many, do you know about how many residents in Connecticut we have using this?

Brad Bullis (19:20)
So I'm trying to think how many library card holders there are. We have a lot of potential users. I think it may be over a million people have library cards.

Kym Powe (19:25)
Right.

Ashley Sklar (19:28)
Yeah, so there's about a third of the people in Connecticut have library cards. So yeah.

Kym Powe (19:33)
Thanks.

Brad Bullis (19:33)
So potentially, but not everybody is an e-book reader. I have to say before I started working here as the digital content and innovation, this is one of those guilty confessions, is I was primarily a book reader, print book. I didn't read e-books very often. Every now and then I would, but mostly I was reading books in print. So I was a little bit backwards at that point in time. Now I read almost exclusively through the Palace app, just because...

Kym Powe (19:41)
I'm

Ashley Sklar (20:00)
funny how it happens.

Brad Bullis (20:03)
And it's great, I mean it does work out well. As I said before, I am reading one book that's in print right now and then one on Palace. I'm also listening to things on Palace, but it is very good that way. But there are about 14,000 people who have signed up for the program and we have 185 sites that are actively using the Palace app.

Kym Powe (20:26)
That's awesome. And I think we were throwing out random stats in our library card sign up episode. There's 190 public libraries in state. mean, already, like that's a ton of access. I mean, I think that's great.

So when we think about different ways to access information, access, you know, books in particular and public facing programs, Matt has opened up every one of these episodes with, I'm Matt Geeza, the director of the Connecticut Library for Accessible Books, but what in the world is that? I know that there are probably many people who don't. And again, it is another public facing program. So Matt, let us have it. What is, and we're probably going to spend a lot of our time here calling it CT LAB just to shorten down the title. What is CT LAB? Connecticut Library for Accessible Books.

Matt Geeza (21:25)
Yeah, the CT LAB or the Connecticut Library for Accessible Books is part of the Connecticut State Library. It's a unit within the Division of Library Development. And we provide books in audio and braille format to any Connecticut resident that's not able to read print books due to a print disability. And when we talk about print disability, that's just sort of a broad descriptor that within that description might include people who are blind or who have low vision. It includes people who have reading disabilities and anyone who has a physical disability that might make it hard for them to use a traditional print book. For those folks, it might mean that they're unable to hold the book for long periods of time or at all, it might mean that they have difficulty turning the pages or perhaps their eyes are unable to focus for extended period of time. And there are a range of disabilities that sort of would fall into that category of physical disabilities. That, in essence is what we do, provide audio books and Braille books to folks who can't use print books.

Kym Powe (22:41)
Yeah. And CT LAB used to be called the library for the blind, which I imagine leads itself to people assuming that the service is only for people who might be blind or low vision. So did the name change? I assume or you can let me know if that's partially because as you just described, the service is for people, more people than might fit into strictly the category of people who are blind or have low vision, right? So is that part of the reason? Because you were here for that. You were the director at the time when we went through that whole process.

Matt Geeza (23:18)
Yeah, you know, your perception is correct in that historically what happened that, you know, the full name when I started in the role was the library for the blind and physically handicapped. And most people would stop at the library for the blind. So it was a short form of describing or talking about the library, but also it was, they stopped there thinking that was really the primary audience that was being served were individuals who were blind. And, all the other people who qualify for using the service were sort of left out of the equation or people just didn't realize that those folks also can utilize the service and would qualify for service. So as we were, considering name changes, we very much wanted to sort of try to address that and help raise awareness that this is a resource for blind people, but many other people as well that qualify and are eligible for the service.

Ashley Sklar (24:21)
One of the things, I'm sorry to interrupt you. No, always interrupt. I remember when you were going through the names or that name change process, and one of the things that struck me ⁓ that you were talking about is that you were really trying to focus on a new name that really emphasized the format of the service and the format of the book, right? And so really focusing that name on the accessible books is what we're offering, right? Because that's much more about what we do. it's also a more kind of inclusive way to talk about, right? Because accessible can mean so many different things, as you just described. So I really loved that that sort of was part of the spirit of renaming the division.

Matt Geeza (25:06)
Yeah, that was something that really was pointed out by members of the CT LAB advisory committee as we were going through that process is that they really felt that was important to focus on the format or the resources being offered rather than, you know, the disabilities being served necessarily. Not that we don't acknowledge that, but just, you know, that in the name we're going to focus on the resource.

Kym Powe (25:28)
Mm-hmm. And so we know that CT LAB, as you mentioned, is within the division of library development. That's who we all work for. We're all in the same building now. Once upon a time, the building that housed CT LAB was in another town. Now we're all together in this shockingly tiny building. ⁓ and, know, we all work for the state of Connecticut, right, or the Connecticut State Library. But CT LAB is like an extended branch of NLS, the National Library Service, which expands bigger than the Connecticut State Library because it's something national. So can you talk about that a little bit?

Matt Geeza (26:06)
Sure, yeah, our federal partner in this service is the National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled. That's its full name. And as you said, they use the shortened form of NLS. They are part of the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. and they've been in existence for 90 plus years at this point. They're the ones that actually provide all of the book collections. So they do the work to add the books and maintain the collection that we make available to our Connecticut residents. And they also provide the equipment that's available to people who use the service. So their model then is that they partner with agencies in each of the US states and all US territories as well. And that agency has access to the NLS resources and equipment and they make those pieces of equipment and the books available to the residents of their home state or territory. So it is in fact a nationwide network. So if you're listening to this and you're not from the state of Connecticut, then CT LAB wouldn't necessarily serve you, but you can go on the NLS website or call up the NLS and they have a way of directing you directly to the resource in your home state. So this is something that all of the core services that we'll be talking about this morning are available nationwide.

Kym Powe (27:33)
So we heard from Brad that Palace provides access to titles in e-book and e-audiobook format, which I think people are pretty familiar with. But the formats that are available through CTLAB, through NLS, are a little bit different. So you mentioned Braille and Talking Book Services. I want to start with talking book services if we can because talking book and audiobook sound like the same thing with slightly different words, but they're not, right? And they're not because of like a multitude of things. So would you mind diving into that? I feel like that's like a commonality of like, an audiobook, no, a talking book. They're not quite the same. So would you let us know about that a little bit? 

Matt Geeza (28:18)
Sure. So that they actually have the same origin and the origin is with the NLS, you know, so the NLS was...They were the ones that were leading the charge of developing books and audio format. Nowadays we provide our talking books or audiobooks through the service in digital format but the original format was what they would call rigid disk or a vinyl record basically. NLS was one of the actors that was involved in the development of the LP or long playing vinyl record because, you know, before the LP came along, there wasn't as much space on that disc, which meant you had more discs that were being sent out to people in the mail. So this is, we'll talk about this more, I'm sure, with the delivery, but this originates as a mail service where items are being delivered to home.

So to get back to the idea of what the distinction between a talking book and audiobook, they sort of come out of that sort of same ancestry, so to speak. And then over time, what happened was all people started to realize, hey, this is great. Whether I'm traveling, commuting by car or taking a trip, I can start to listen to audiobooks. First on cassette, then on CD, and now we're in a place where things are in the digital format. Various publishing houses started producing commercially produced audiobooks as well. NLS has its own recording studios. So at this point with the NLS collection, those talking books are being recorded by professional narrators from the NLS studios.

Kym Powe (30:08)
Anyone from the NLS is listening and thinks I would make an amazing audiobook reader, please call me. Don't call me. I don't answer the phone. Email me. Thank you.

Matt Geeza (30:17)
or send in your audition, know, so can show.

Kym Powe (30:21)
my gosh, nervous.

Matt Geeza (30:23)
So where we are right now then is we have, you know, NLS books, are the talking books are available to anybody who qualifies for the service. So there is an eligibility requirement for using the service, whereas a commercially produced audio book, those are available for private purchase. You know, people can purchase them wherever they might do that or libraries are acquiring them and making them available in their collections, know, that's where, you know, our conversation earlier with Palace and Libby, you know, where that's coming into play is that those books are being made available by those publishers. Getting into some of the more technical things, NLS actually encrypts its digital books so that they can only be used by the equipment or only be used by the download app and download service that's available through NLS, which is called BARD, and we can talk more about that later. So in terms of accessing those materials, you truly have to be a patron of one of the NLS network libraries in order to actually be able to listen to those audiobooks. And then a final distinction that I've noticed in listening to both commercially produced books and
NLS talking books is that NLS tends to record almost all of the material that is between the two covers of the book. So particularly in case of nonfiction, if there are footnotes, if there are charts or graphs, they're going to describe those charts and graphs. If there are appendices and you know, various other sort of resources, you know, they won't necessarily do the index of a book, but all of the other kind of material that is often kind of between the two covers, they will record it. They are trying to truly replicate the experience that any sighted person would have with using a print book. And so they don't want to leave out any of that content if they can help it. I have found that not all commercially produced talking books will include footnotes, will include descriptions of the charts and graphs and things like that. So I think that is one of the distinctions between a commercially produced audiobook and, the talking books. And NLS really takes a lot of pains too for the navigation capabilities of being able to navigate into very finite details.

And jumping throughout the book again trying to replicate that same reading experience that a sighted person would have with a printed book The commercially produced talking books do a pretty good job of that But I think that NLS navigation might be a little bit more robust comparatively speaking don't I'm not a hundred percent, so Please don't quote me on that. so I think those are some of the

Ashley Sklar (33:23)
That's about it.

Kym Powe (33:23)
No quote.

Matt Geeza (33:29)
I know that's a longer answer, but those are some of the distinctions between talking books and regular

Kym Powe (33:37)
I'm mostly shocked because you know I pretend to work for CT LAB constantly. go out, man, and I've got the confidence of someone who's been trained for years until a question shows up and I just hand over Matt's business card. Like I, we have reached the limit of my, I did the same with ego. I'm like, yes, I know about Palace because it's on my phone. Let me tell you things. And then we reach a point and I'm like, and this is Brad. Here's Brad's card. Please call Brad. I don't know. But so the origin story, the fact that audio books and talking books kind of originated from NLS is, I'm going to add that to my repertoire when I pretend to be someone who works at CT LAB. Is it, also, are there, and we might not know unless we kind of sit down for an hour and compare and contrast, but I would imagine that because with traditionally published, books ultimately at the end of the day. I believe it's the publisher who decides like what's gonna be an audiobook. What's gonna be an ebook? There are moments where I'm trying to find an audiobook for something and then realize like the limit does not exist like there is no audiobook in the world It's not that I can't find it. It's that like no Does NLS Do their best to provide recordings through their studios of right like as many books as they can because ultimately the goal is to provide support for an accessibility need. Like are users of perhaps both more likely to titles, maybe like backlist titles, I don't really know, in BARD which will kind of hit ust because, because.

Matt Geeza (35:28)
Yeah, so I think you're maybe getting a little bit like what's the sort of collection philosophy? How does NLS decide what's added to their collection and so forth? So the answer to that is that they take a very similar approach to the approach that most public libraries take and that is they are looking to collect fiction and nonfiction. It skews a little bit more heavily towards fiction than nonfiction, but I think that sort of tracks with public libraries approaches as well. They aim to include all current bestsellers. So they monitor various bestseller lists like USA Today, I think the LA Times, New York Times, know, so various publications that maintain bestseller lists. They're always tracking that. And if it isn't already in the collection, then they're making plans to add those books into the collection.

One of the great features about the NLS service is that they are granted copyright exception so they can record literally any book that they decide to or there is a mechanism that we have there. NLS patrons, including CT LAB patrons here in Connecticut, can use to request that NLS add a book to the collection. And if NLS chooses not to, then sometimes there are other options because here in Connecticut, we produce locally produced talking books. We tend to focus on Connecticut authors and Connecticut topics. But if the request comes from one of our Connecticut patrons and a book be added to the collection, NLS declines it. It is an option that we have then to record the book and make it available. And any books that are produced by any of the states throughout the country, those are made available to the NLS collection so that all our NLS patrons would eventually have access to these books.

Kym Powe (37:20)
That's so awesome. And if the people who record for Connecticut are looking for a new recorder who's got kind of a squeaky voice but, you know, feels very confident about it, call me. Again, don't call me.

Ashley Sklar (37:34)
Do you look for volunteers? Yes. Connection.

Matt Geeza (37:35)
can help with.

Kym Powe (37:38)
Goodbye libraries. Hello microphones. But so in addition to talking books, you mentioned Braille. So what type of Braille format formatted titles do you provide access to? And this might actually be a really great opportunity to talk about some of the different equipment that is used to provide access to the Braille titles as well as the digital or ebook titles.

Talking book title.

Matt Geeza (38:09)
Yeah, so we'll start with the Braille first and then can backtrack to the audio part. With Braille we have hardcopy Braille, know, so this would be the equivalent of a print book. We can, patrons can request those books and those items are sent through the US mail to a patron's residence. And then when they're done, they return them and everything travels through US mail for free as free matter for the blind. So that means that there's no charge for us to send them to patrons and there's no charge for patrons to return items to us. We also now make available electronic Braille books. And those are available through the NLS's download service, BARD. That stands for Braille and Audio Reading Download.

Those books can be read by folks who have a refreshable Braille display. And this is a device that has electronic pins that can raise and lower as a reader reads the lines of Braille text. So with that, you would download the file and then either sync it or use like a USB drive or something like that to transfer the book to the refreshable Braille display.

One of the nice things is that we now have refreshable Braille displays called the NLS Braille eReader that are available to our patrons. So anybody that's a Braille reader and would like to access and have one of these pieces of equipment, they just need to contact CTLAB and we can make arrangements to get a refreshable Braille display, the NLS Braille eReader to them. And then the final thing related to Braille that I'll say is that NLS has a relatively new program but is very popular that is called hard copy Braille on demand. So with this if the book is available in that electronic Braille format on BARD a patron can request through an online form or through CT LAB and we can do it on their behalf.

We submit the request, it goes to NLS, and then they have it embossed, basically converted. That's the embossing as the term that is the equivalent of printing a document. We emboss Braille documents when we're making them into hard copy versions. patron can request up to five books per month in a 30 day period that would be embossed. Then once it's...The book is embossed, it's sent to the patron, and this is the amazing part. They get to keep the book indefinitely as long as they're not trying to resell it or reuse it in any way for profit. So it's for personal use indefinitely. So NLS is finding that a lot of people are using Braille on demand requests for are cookbooks. Very expensive. And it's a great resource to have.

Ashley Sklar (41:11)
Of course, yeah.

Kym Powe (41:18)
Man, move over CT LAB. I work there now. I've learned so much. So those are the resources that are available for folks to access Braille books, cookbooks and information. But sort of going back to the talking books, there are a couple ways to do that too, right? So you've got players, there's at, you've mentioned BARD a couple times. So what's the story behind those?

Matt Geeza (41:48)
So yeah, alluded the oldest way of listening to talking books within the service was with a record player and records. That transitioned then from records to cassette players and cassettes. And now we have what are called digital talking book machines or talking book players. These are essentially, they remind me of the tabletop cassette players, if you're of a certain age, that will sound familiar to you. So they have, you know, they're designed to be set on a tabletop. They're about seven to eight inches long, about six inches wide and about two inches thick. So they don't take up a lot of space. And then on top of them, they have all of the playback controls that you would expect to have, like play, stop, fast forward, rewind, volume control. 

One of the great things about these players is that they also have tone and speed buttons, which you won't find with every single audiobook app that's commercially produced. So tone allows you to adjust the bass and treble. So sometimes if you've been listening to audiobooks, you may have had that experience where you have a hard time connecting with the narrator's voice. And one of the recommendations we'll often share with patrons is to try adjusting the tone up or down and see if it kind of gets it into a range that is more appealing, especially if you're motivated to finish that book. And then speed allows you to increase or slow down the playback to your liking in various increments, and it does not distort the audio in any way. And so those digital talking book machines are designed to play specially designed flash drive cartridges that we here at CT LAB will load anywhere from one to 12 books on a single cartridge. And then they're sent out to the patron. And then that cartridge inserts into the front of the digital talking book player for listening to the audio books. For folks that are using the talking book machines and talking book cartridges, every cartridge that goes out is custom created for our patrons. And this is one of the distinctions from other library services is that because of the NLS legislation that governs it, we can have multiple simultaneous users of titles. So there are no holds or wait lists or anything like that for a title. So we could have all of our CT LAB patrons reading the same title at one time and it would not create any kind of issue.

So that's the talking book player in the cartridge. The BARD part, as I said, that's the Braille and Audio Reading Download Service. That originated as something you could log into the BARD website using a computer's web browser, download a title. And then what the patron would do is transfer the title to a flash drive. And then that USB flash drive could be inserted into a USB port that's on the side of the digital talking book machine. That evolved into then developing the BARD Mobile app, which is now available for Android and iOS devices, so smartphones and tablets, as well as Kindle Fire devices. So the BARD Mobile app, the great thing about this is you log in,

Kym Powe (45:14)
that's-

Matt Geeza (45:21)
Search for titles, download titles, and in the case of the talking books, you can play them back directly through that device. So your device becomes a digital talking book player, essentially. Yeah, and then NLS also has an app that is available for Windows-based computers that is free that can be downloaded from the NLS website that's called BARD Express. And this, like the BARD mobile app, you install it on your Windows-based computer.

And then once you've logged in, you can search for titles, download titles. And one of the new features is that now you can play back talking books directly through the BARD Express app. So they've built in essentially a talking book player. So this is new and I think welcome from a lot of patrons because as I mentioned, NLS encrypts all of their talking books. So it was never possible to download a book from BARD and then use a media player on your computer to listen to that book.

Kym Powe (46:21)
Right, right. Brad, are we the only ones who don't have BARD on our phone?

Brad Bullis (46:27)
I think we are. I'm looking to maybe get the app.

Kym Powe (46:30)
I know I'm sitting here and I'm like, well, that might be what happened when we're done with this recording because Ashley's got BARD and Matt has to have it. It's all right, Brad, we'll catch up.

Brad Bullis (46:38)
Well, you may be a connection because I think after today you're going to have two new jobs. You're going to be working for CT LAB and you're going be doing recording as well.

Kym Powe (46:47)
Yes, yes. Don't worry. I still make time for my friends. So this is we're basically just talking about books today. So right. So we've got eGo and the Palace app. We've got CT LAB and BARD and and talking book players. And one of the ways that we use those two services is through a program that Ashley and I started. Politely stole and adapted is the actual term which is an all state reading initiative called All CT Reads. So, we've been to, what year are we going into in 2026?

Ashley Sklar (47:24)
I think this is five. I think it's five. I think it's five.

Kym Powe (47:28)
Yeah, we've just been quietly doing this in the background. And so it's on a calendar year, right, Ashley? So a January to December reading initiative, which it's not a contest, right? Like there's enough book contests floating around in Connecticut. It is really just like, this is a small state. A lot of us know each other sort of in different fields.

It takes two hours when I'm driving, two hours to get from one end to the other. So we really wanted to create something right to like unify this day. Is that probably the best way? I think so.

Ashley Sklar (48:03)
We want to like all people across the state to be able to talk about some of the same book.

Kym Powe (48:06)
Right. because there's a lot of one state one reads, which I think are great, but have always kind of bothered me because you can't even get like most people in the state to read one title from just sort of an age perspective, an interest perspective, right? Like even if there is a young reader's version of a book, it's typically, I don't want to say typically, but...The young readers version is going to be for a designated age group, right? So perhaps high school or middle school. And so then what do we do with our like 11 year olds, right? So our reading initiative has four titles for each.

Ashley Sklar (48:47)
Yeah, we wanted a collection. ⁓

Kym Powe (48:49)
Absolutely. there's one thing, and if there's one thing a librarian is going to do, it's curate. So the way it works is that we've got kids, teens, and adults. And there are four titles for each age group. There are three short list titles and one primary title. Again, right, giving people an option. And within those age ranges, we try to pick things that are on the lower age end of the age range on the higher age end of the age range. We've got fantasy. We've got historical fiction. We had nonfiction once. did. So to give people sort of like a variety as well as educators, book clubs and sort of and all of that. And the way that we run that program is how Ashley, how do we run that program?

Ashley Sklar (49:37)
We work with fabulous book people, librarians and others from all around the state. So we pull together three separate committees, one for each of these age groups. And they do the incredibly heavy and joyous lifting of putting together reading lists. And they work together to do that, which is really great. We have a kind of a shared document. They put together a reading list. We...spend most of the summer months reading those books. We, I say we, I don't read them. We don't do any of the reading. As you're sitting here like, we like to see. Yeah, we do. I read them after they pick them in the next year. And this is actually one of my, primary ways I use Palace is then I listen to the audio books for the all CT read titles all that year. But they do the really, the hard work of reading those books and processing and thinking about them and coming together to then.

Kym Powe (50:09)
I-

Ashley Sklar (50:29)
pick these four books that Kym mentioned, right? So the three shortlist and single primary title for each of those age groups. And they do a fabulous job. And this is a rotating group of people we work with. don't know how many people we've worked with at this point in our five years of the program, but a lot of you in it. More than two. But they bring such insights and perspectives and they really sort of

Kym Powe (50:49)
than two.

Ashley Sklar (50:58)
on the criteria we give them that we want books that people can talk about, right? We were talking about, we want people to be able to talk about some of the same books in any part of our state. And so they really think about  which ones are good for discussion, which ones represent different communities that we see here in our state, in our towns, in our cities, and try to kind of put all of that into the choices that they make, both in adding to that reading list and then making that final selection too.

Kym Powe (51:27)
And shortening, yeah, it's tough job. Someone's gotta do it and it's not us. Our tough job is finding other people to do the tougher job. So every year during the summer, we have our folks reading these titles. We are checking in and then ultimately each person who's leading the different age group sort of facilitates a conversation selecting the final four titles for the specific age group. So Ashley runs the adult title. At the, the very beginning, I was running both children and teen. It was a lot. It was a lot. it's too much, too many emails, too much confusion from other people. just, and it did not take long before I'd hit my wits end. So we were able to bring in some partners to help us run. Ultimately, I wound up with the kids committee, which is so interesting because I really enjoy working with teens and on behalf of teens, but... That's true. Yeah, no, no, no, just worked out that way. And now we actually have another colleague who's helping us with the teen committee. But one of our favorite things to do is to share those titles. Because even though this is a newer program, there are some people who have really, there are some people who've really like jumped on this bandwagon, right? There are schools where the teachers come together and they've run, they've organized a book club around the titles and they read through all of the titles. There are libraries who are running book clubs who will go through all of our titles. There, we had two libraries who joined together. This was when we were still kind of locked down and they put their two groups of teens, right, from town A and town B and ran like a group book club amongst those towns, which is really cool. it's small but mighty like the state of Connecticut. So we figured with this podcast, I did some fast talking and got permission for. What an opportunity to share these titles out here before we send an email out to our library folks to let them know what to prepare for.

So Ashley, I figure we could work backwards this time and we could start with adults.

Brad Bullis (53:46)
Can we have a drum roll?

Ashley Sklar (53:48)
We have tried. We wish. really wanted a drum.

Kym Powe (53:52)
Wanted a drum roll so bad. Just pick a button. Any button.

Matt Geeza (53:57)
person applause button.

Kym Powe (53:59)
We'll applause at the end. There you go. Because we gotta use this button.

Ashley Sklar (54:03)
As you're saying that we're doing this on the podcast this year, I was like, I feel like every single year we have announced it. Sure have. Always in November, but always differently. different way. It's never been same. It's good. We are keeping with that tradition, and we are announcing them differently. I'm very excited. I get to do the adults, of course. is great. So I'm going to do the short list first, leave you in a little suspense for our primary title. So short list, first title is The Collected Regrets of Clover by Mikki Brammer.

Kym Powe (54:12)
Every time. Not one.

Ashley Sklar (54:33)
And this book, just a short little synopsis of each to give you a teaser. You're welcome. Thank you to Kym for giving me these short little synopsis teasers. So Collected Regrets of Clover. Feeling a stronger connection with the dying than to the living, Clover, a death doula in New York City, has no life of her own until the final wishes of a feisty old woman sends her across the country to uncover a forgotten love story and perhaps her own happy ending. So I will just say the committee was really interested in this concept of a death doula in this narrative. So excited about this title.

Next is There Are Rivers in the Sky by Elif Shafak. This one says, sweeping across centuries and stretching from Mesopotamia to London, the stunning novels follows a trio of characters living in the shadows of one of the greatest epic poems of all time, the Epic of Gilgamesh as they become entwined by a single drop of water. That drop of water was really part of our discussion about how all of these narratives over time and place are tied around this drop of water. I don't know what this means yet because I haven't read the book as we said. 

And then last on the short list is a book called Help Wanted by Adelle Waldman, a group of misfit big box store employees working the overnight shift in a small upstate New York town. V for the day of stability, salary and possibility of a new job when their store manager announces he is leaving. So this one felt really relevant for our moment where big box stores have a place in many lives. 

And then the primary title. There's like so many places I know. Thank you, The Emperor of Gladness by Ocean Vuong. In the struggling town of East Gladness, Connecticut. 19-year-old Hai is saved from despair by Grazina, an elderly widow with dementia forging an unexpected bond that reshapes their lives and reveals dynamics of love, memory, and resilience on the margins of society. There was so much conversation. This was kind of hands down the primary title with this committee. Ocean Vuong grew up in Connecticut. He's a Vietnamese American, came here as a refugee, but grew up in Hartford, so lots of connections to Connecticut. Went to Manchester Community College, graduated from there. I have it on good authority that he still makes appearances there and uses the library at times, so we're really, really excited to have this as our primary.

Kym Powe (57:13)
Yay! Okay, so we're gonna work our way down age range. And we're gonna do teens, yeah. So our three secondary titles, the first one is called In Limbo by Deb JJ Lee. It's set between New Jersey and Seoul, and it's a coming-of-age story that follows the author as she goes to South Korea, where she ultimately realizes some things that change her perspective of her family and her heritage and herself. So very much coming of age. And I think there comes a point in our teen years where we all realize that maybe our families and parents aren't exactly what we or who we thought they were. 

So our second book is by my fave, we go way back and by we, I mean, it's just me, he doesn't know who I am, ⁓ Ruin Road by Lamar Giles. So it's ultimately about a high school football player named Cade Webster who buys a ring in a pawn shop. And he makes a wish on that ring that people stop acting scared of him, which is so unfortunate. But then he realizes that it's coming true. And he remembers that the ring came with a warning, a very cryptic warning of quote, when the strangeness begins, come back. Whatever that means, I'm gonna have read it to find out. And then it seems that people actually begin to lose their fears of everything. And when I think about the spider in the corner of my bedroom, that sounds great. But then you think about other things and you're like, maybe we should be scared of some things. 

And the third shortlist title for teens is a summer. I remembered everything by Katherine Con Morse, which we actually have here at the service center. So we really pumped about that.

Ashley Sklar (58:44)
You can follow that down a lot of

Kym Powe (58:58)
And it is about 16 year old Emily who spends her summer as a companion to an elderly woman with Alzheimer's and ultimately grapples with being both a loyal friend and a responsible caregiver because unfortunately sometimes those things don't they're not the same. 

And our primary selection for teens and it's it is so funny that this wound up being the primary title. A friend of mine is on the teen committee and she reached out to me. She's like, "I gotta suggest one more book for the Teen All CT Reads Committee to read. Like, do you have anything?" And I said, "yeah, this book, I've been wanting to read it for a long time." And it won. actually this is, you're welcome. You're welcome, Connecticut. And it's Looking for Smoke by K.A. Cobell. And it's about a classmate who is ultimately murdered during a traditional Blackfeet giveaway.

And a couple of kids who live on the reservation, Mara, Lauren, Brody, and Eli are the last people to see her alive. And they have to figure out what happened themselves. Like, right, they've got to dive into it. And that's because some people think that they might have had something to do with it. So they have to clear their own names. But it turns out that like one of them might actually have done it. I am currently...

Ashley Sklar (1:00:17)
You are not giving anything away.

Kym Powe (1:00:20)
It's always one of the group of kids. You don't read enough teen books. One of the group of kids always had something to do with it. So you were a teen once, as I say in my teen services presentations. Unless there is something that someone here has to share with us, which we really should know about, we were all previous teens. We were all teens once. 

And finally, our kids' titles,  our secondary titles, The Flicker by H.E. Edgmon.  So it's about a person who is leaving home with their infant half-brother in search of a character, Millie's seminal elder grandma. Step-sisters, so they're two stepsisters with their infant brother who are on this journey, Millie and Rose, and they get some unexpected help braving the hostile wastelands to make it to their grandma safely. But a group called the Hive, right, a villainous group, and who are hoarding supplies and ultimately like living in as much luxury as you can in this wasteland or trying to keep these girls from getting to where they have to get to. 

And Swim Team by Johnnie Christmas. So when she, our main character, has to take swim 101, our middle schooler, Bree, has to face one of her greatest fears, me too, girl, me too. And...She gets a little bit of help from an elderly neighbor and who's a former swim team captain. And it turns out that she becomes her school's best hope to beat their middle school swim team rivals. 

And our last shortlist title is Oasis by Guojing And it's about two children and one robot. And they take center stage ⁓ in exploring how...

Ashley Sklar (1:01:58)
amazing.

Kym Powe (1:02:10)
far AI technology can go, which is also really timely right now. Gigi and her little brother, Didi, find an AI-powered robot just lying in a junkyard. It feels very WALL-E to me. And while their mother works tirelessly to earn them admission into a place called Oasis City. it's a really great book, also a really quick read, and we love those.

Last but certainly not least, [imitates drum roll] do do do do do do do do

Ashley Sklar (1:02:42)
I sorry, I'm not even attempting a drum roll.

Kym Powe (1:02:44)
I got it, I got it. Remember I have three jobs. This is my job now being in front of microphone. 

Our primary kid's title is Mid-Air by Alicia D. Williams. And it's about 13 year old Isaiah as he grapples with the loss of his best friend. And as he does his best to fit into a world that expects him to like toughen up, right? Be a man. Which leads him into exploring his identity and vulnerability and you know, what all that stuff ultimately.

Ashley Sklar (1:03:13)
Sure sure girl

Kym Powe (1:03:15)
You can read them all. You're all here. So we're really excited to share those titles and also really excited to, this was all planned, tie this back into Palace and CT LAB. So when we put together a website that has these titles, the full descriptions, as well as some support material that we find scouring the internet.

Ashley Sklar (1:03:44)
engagement resources, we call them.

Kym Powe (1:03:46)
Sure, Stuff, internet stuff. We do, it's very important to us to identify the variety of ways that people can access these titles, right? So some people are just audio readers because maybe they have a long commute. Some people are ebook readers. I myself am one because sometimes that carpal tunnel, I just don't want to hold a book because my wrist hurts. So Brad, you are always so kind as to purchase any of these titles on this list that exist in ebook and e-audio format and make like a row. What's the row called?

Brad Bullis (1:04:26)
Yeah, so we have lanes in Palace. So every year when we have all CT reads, right now the 2025 titles are up in Palace as a lane. And once we launch 2026, we'll have a lane for those books. So they're easily discoverable.

Kym Powe (1:04:41)
Yeah, you don't have to hunt for them. You don't have to remember the titles. You can just click and we do that with things like the nutmegs and books by Connecticut authors. So it's super great. But the individual libraries have to ask for the lanes. Is that right?

Brad Bullis (1:04:54)
They can ask for them, but they are also built and they can just make them live in their interface.

Kym Powe (1:05:00)
Right. So if someone goes to their local library or opens Palace for their local library and there's no lane, they can call library X and say, hey, ⁓ I heard on under the charter Oak podcast that Brad said that you can turn this on. So will you turn it on? And then they can just do that.

Brad Bullis (1:05:15)
They can do that and we'll be building the 2026 lane shortly, but we already have the titles in Palace and they're in CT LAB as well.

Kym Powe (1:05:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so Matt, you also really help us out when we come up with this list, because we tend to have the list around September-ish. And you're able to help us find those. So can you actually tell us, because there's a way for CT LAB residents to ask for these titles, right? Like they can just say the title and author, but there's also numbers. I got a voicemail once where someone left me a bunch of numbers, and I realized that the voicemail was not for me and walk back to CT LAB. But you're able to help us out with some of these too, right?

Matt Geeza (1:05:54)
Yeah, yeah, I think all but one of the titles that are available through the NLS collection and by extension CT LAB. NLS is that...We didn't say this explicitly earlier, but this is a collection that's designed to appeal to all ages and stages and NLS has been focusing a lot lately on improving the younger readers collection, I would say. I'm pleased to see that all of them are here. And yes, Kym, each of the books in the NLS collection gets its own unique identifying number. And it has a little prefix in front of it. For digital books, it's D.B. as in digital book, and then the book number will follow. So patrons who want to request books from CT LAB staff and their readers advisor, the staff member here that can help them with that they can request by title, by author, or they can just give us the book number.

Kym Powe (1:06:47)
And on our website for each of these titles, on the individual title page, we will list, right, if it's available through the Palace app, if it is available as a talking book from CT LAB, because with this program, as well as many of our others, we just want to make it as simple as possible. We're not here to cause confusion or extra work or make anyone scrounge for something, so, and there will be an episode that plays in a couple of months for...an interview that we did with someone else, not only did we borrow this entire program from Iowa, but the method in which we set up the website and the information that we put on the website was also sort of inspired by someone else with the title and the authors and the support material when there is support material to be, what do we call it? Do we call it something? That one, man, one day I'm gonna, I do the website too.

Ashley Sklar (1:07:41)
engagement resources. You do know but I named that one credit or blame

Kym Powe (1:07:50)
It like you did. So yeah, mean, these are just some of the public facing resources that exist from the Connecticut State Library. think we really are the wizard behind the curtain. Like we really just go to work every day recognizing that like 80 % of the Connecticut population has never heard the words Connecticut State Library in that specific order in their life, let alone the Middletown Library Service Center, unless they're looking for the Middletown Public Library and they call us on accident. Or show up. Or just straight up show up. So, you know, we know that, we recognize that, and it's fine. It's fine. Like our goal, Brad said it, is to pair people up and connect people to their local public library. That is what we are here for. But sometimes just doing our work, we ultimately create or inherit or facilitate when thinking about NLS and CT LAB programs that are directly for the public. know, whether we choose to filter them through the public library or not, it's designed for Joe Connecticut. And these are just some of them, maybe all of them, I don't know. Some of them, there may be more. I'm working on new things. I'm working on new things for summer. gosh, my brain already hurts. 

Ashley Sklar (1:09:08)
I don't know.

Kym Powe (1:09:19)
But these were just some of them. And if this medium of talking directly to the public was not a really awesome opportunity to talk about them, then I don't know what is because who reads trifolds anymore? So I guess if that's it, y'all, is that kind of, you know, I guess it's just time for us to say thank you for joining us under the Charter Oak, a podcast of the Connecticut State Library where we preserve the past to inform the future.